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On The (2021)

benmyers.dev

91–100 of 138 posts

Re: On The <dl> (2021)

#91
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was better off not knowing that this morning. Might be worth prefixing that tidbit of info with “trigger warning: the unrelenting passage of time”.

There exist toddlers who were raised on Teletubbies that are now members of Congress

I’m going to have to politely request that you stop this immediately.

Re: On The <dl> (2021)

#92
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bleh. is apparently now bring attention to . As if.

Eh, it's fine, elements should be defined for what they mean, not what they look like. The explanation and distinctions made between and other elements ( , , ) make sense. The suggested (not obligatory) user agent styling for is `font-weight: bolder` an agent or authors could use lots of different things to bring attention to what the element contains and treat it differently from . https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multi…

I write most of my content in markdown or asciidoc and I don't pay attention to whether it's b or strong :)

Re: On The <dl> (2021)

#93
post #69

It always bugs me that the naming of the element does not seem to really fit examples like „Author: Tolkien“. It‘s not that _Tolkien“_ „defines“ the „term“ _Author_ right? The elements are still used for key-value-lists and no one seems to notice or comment on this issue. Am I the only one?

[dead]

Re: On The <dl> (2021)

#94
post #23

> Admittedly, however, support for the element is not yet universal. Wait what? has been in HTML since.. the first draft in 1993! I like DL's but they can be challenging to style. This article is using a lot of fixed pixel widths which would break on really small screens or larger data.

Well, it took about a decade for web standards to become a real thing and a lot longer for Web Platform Tests to come to be. Still, while there are lots of tests for DOM construction and visual rendering, testing construction of the accessibility tree is lacking (also keyboard interaction testing).

And that's just for browsers, there's no shared spec for the operating system accessibility APIs the browsers' accessibility tree has to be translated into or how screen readers (and other assistive technologies) will use the OS's APIs.

Re: On The <dl> (2021)

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Custom-named elements are divs.

They're not as you can see here[1] and here[2]. They both inherit from the HTMLElement interface but div is considered an HTMLDivElement which makes it distinct from a custom element. != [1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_compone... [2] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/HTMLDivElem...

HTMLDivElement has no properties or methods not inherited from HTMLElement. If you inspect the user-agent styling of div versus any non-standard named element, you'll see that they have the same styling path, specifically unlike with span. In other words, non-standard elements and divs are all block elements with the default HTMLElement attributes and methods.

The use of HTMLElement and HTMLUnknownElement for the non-standard elements is to support future additions to the standard elements and enable subclassing down-tree instead of across-tree, which is noted in the spec.

Re: On The <dl> (2021)

#97
List history (listory?) lesson, kids: As the link below to a 1985 IBM mainframe DCF/GML manual shows, DL-DT-DD have been a thing since before the web. In addition to Definition lists (DL), the 40+ year-old documentation describes Glossary lists (GL), Ordered lists (OL), Unordered lists (UL), and Simple lists (SL).

ibm :: 370 :: DCF :: SH35-0050-2 Document Composition Facility Generalized Markup Language Implementation Guide Rel 3 Mar85

https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_ibm370DCFSpositionFaci...

Re: On The <dl> (2021)

#98
post #59

The tag seems to cover a subset of a broad semantic space, but doesn’t easily extend beyond adding another . I dunno, I guess I’m a caveman. If it looks right and works (including accessibility) then I figure I’m pursuing something that doesn’t matter a lot.

Shameless plug: you might be interested in https://calvinlc.com/p/2026/02/11/everything-is-a-div.html I need to learn more about web accessibility, but if you completely ignore it (and other sane practices) HTML looks really simple. I think the design of HTML is just too much. There’s so many tags that don’t do much. It’s like w3c decided that any common thing people use in websites needs a tag. The end result is mor…

lol, you should actually read the HTML spec, there are good explanations of all the elements. The whole point of defining semantics is that elements have meaning independent of their default appearance (or any appearance).

> I need to learn more about web accessibility, but if you completely ignore it (and other sane practices) HTML looks really simple.

Everything looks really simple when you ignore vast amounts of the subject and nuance.

Your rules don't mention keyboard or focus behavior, the only mention of either is the association between and its . does have functionality, it's an HTML-native ARIA live region (that can be associated with a ).

https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/

Re: On The <dl> (2021)

#99
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, it's fine, elements should be defined for what they mean, not what they look like. The explanation and distinctions made between and other elements ( , , ) make sense. The suggested (not obligatory) user agent styling for is `font-weight: bolder` an agent or authors could use lots of different things to bring attention to what the element contains and treat it differently from . https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multi…

I write most of my content in markdown or asciidoc and I don't pay attention to whether it's b or strong :)

In practice today, that's fine. Typically authors have a hard time differentiating what "emphasis," "importance," and "bring attention to" mean to them. Therefore, nothing conveys a distinction by default.

Re: On The <dl> (2021)

#100
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh that’s great. It’s an opinionated view that focused strictly on the behavior of the tags wrt layout and appearance. I’ve noticed that discussions of semantic meaning of tags often contain the word “feel.” Nothing wrong with that, taste matters, but it does point to the non-functional goals that are being pursued when people disagree. vs - they are both ordered, because markup is ordered. One gets decorated differe…

A is a list of things whose order makes no difference to its meaning. Rearranging a would change the presentation, not the information. Rearranging an would change both. Players Alice Bob Carol Leaderboard Bob Alice Carol

Exactly. “Unordered” implies “reordering doesn’t change meaning.” And yet that’s already implicit in the bullets (vs numbers).

So is it a decoration hint? Or is it actually semantic? And what system is interpreting the semantics rather than the visual presentation?

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