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News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

niemanlab.org

91–100 of 130 posts

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#91

There's an incredibly simple fix: block the archive for a week. No one is paying after a week, so you let the Archive access after that. I don't see why every news outlet doesn't just do this.

The article is about AI companies using the Internet Archive to source training data, not about people using it to avoid paywalls. AI companies don't care that the data is one week old.

Internet Archive can keep it escrowed until AI training kerfuffle blows over

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#92

There's an incredibly simple fix: block the archive for a week. No one is paying after a week, so you let the Archive access after that. I don't see why every news outlet doesn't just do this.

Good idea, but only if the article can't be edited during that week. What's worth preserving is the version the audience actually read. Articles routinely get ninja-edited after publication, sometimes repeatedly. Changelogs should be mandatory but they're useless if we can't keep them honest.

Block public access not archival

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#93

There's an incredibly simple fix: block the archive for a week. No one is paying after a week, so you let the Archive access after that. I don't see why every news outlet doesn't just do this.

It's clear that people place some non-zero value on archival content. It should be unsurprising that news outlets also place some non-zero value on it. Given that they place some non-zero value on it, it is unsurprising that they do not give it away for zero. Disagreeing with their estimation of the value is understandable, but surely it's easy to see why most news outlets do what they do.

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#94
post #56

Not trying to be paranoid, but losing recorded history raw as it was originally reported could lead to quick AI-assisted rewrites in the archives of news outlets to fit whatever narrative of the "jour" is in fashion/that powerful of those times want. We are already seeing it in new editions of some old books that suddenly miss some currently controversial topics. History is written by the victors could change to hist…

Actual physical newspaper still exists tho.

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#95

There really should be a micropayments setup on the internet that's not advertising based. Let these models pay a nickel to read the article, covered by the multi trillion dollar AI blank check.

For as long as there's free data to be downloaded, there will be an AI to ruin a public good. Why pay when you can just have your scraper generate a million trial accounts?

A pay wall at the news site would just bankrupt the internet archive, and a pay wall at the internet archive will kill most public interest in the service.

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#96
post #15

That's a real shame. I am involved with some history-related projects and the number of websites which go offline is huge, and the wayback machine is incredibly helpful for unearthing these dead sites. It is not hard to imagine a future in 50 years time where a huge percentage of this content is lost forever, or at best incredibly hard to find.

Some countries have national archives that all published material must by law be submitted to, including material published online. I know at least Sweden and the UK has that. This will be available for researchers, though usually you have to physically travel to the archive to access the data, so not as convenient as IA.

(It is worth noting that at least in Sweden "published" here has a very specific meaning, that doesn't include personal websites etc, but it does include news outlets.)

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#97

There's an incredibly simple fix: block the archive for a week. No one is paying after a week, so you let the Archive access after that. I don't see why every news outlet doesn't just do this.

It's not about the paywall in this case. It's to prevent AI companies from scraping a publication's archives for training data. If AI companies want that data, they can compensate publishers, not extract it for free from the Internet Archive.

Yes, it's probably cheaper to just download the newspaper articles from Internet Archive than to buy them directly from newspapers. Training costs minimization, or should we call it stealing?

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#98
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Greed and spite.

You people need to stop saying this. You're being greedy when you buy groceries from a cheaper supermarket. You're being greedy when you negotiate your salary or choose a job based on pay, or anything where you're trying to get more stuff for yourself. Those things are all perfectly good behaviors, they make the world more productive, so everyone wins overall. Greed isn't a problem. Spite? No evidence of that. They p…

> Greed isn't a problem.

you listed

1. buying the cheapest groceries you can reasonably find 2. trying to get the highest salary you can 3. literally any time you try to get more for yourself

that's a weak list from which to conclude that greed isn't a problem, especially since in the case of 1. and 2. someone's making money off you, the person who's supposedly greedy in these scenarios.

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#99

There's an incredibly simple fix: block the archive for a week. No one is paying after a week, so you let the Archive access after that. I don't see why every news outlet doesn't just do this.

Do these major publications charge per article? They should, but they don't. So their whole sell is that in aggregate (so access to all, including old articles) they are worth paying monthly for.

In which case archive is a major revenue slumper

Re: News outlets are limiting the Internet Archive’s access to their journalism

#100

Perhaps I imagined this, however some months ago on X someone pointed out a historical article on dailymail.co.uk related to Prince Phillip and Epstein had been scrubbed, which likely would be intelligence or through D-Notices, but where instead of showing a 404 page would redirect to an article that was similar but benign. I checked the URL on the Wayback Machine and it turned up zero results, but not even the redir…

This sounds like the beginning of a story where the next odd thing is your family and friends don’t know who you are, and know one has ever heard of you.

Yeah, so about that - it’s called Project White Bear, involved UK GCHQ, theatre act called GAYA 4.0, AI human “psychological” experimentation, and propaganda depicting Russians as Mongolian beasts with dripping claws and fangs. Not making this up.
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