Live data from Hacker News

Lost Images from the 1945 Trinity Nuclear Test Restored

spectrum.ieee.org

91–100 of 125 posts

Re: Lost Images from the 1945 Trinity Nuclear Test Restored

#91
post #13

I suspect the actual first frames are still classified as they likely evidence detonator tech/performance. So the real first moments of the nuclear age will never be shown. (The high-speed cameras would have started filming shortly before the blast.)

I doubt that there’s anything that’s been classified in a long time in 80-year-old footage of tech that’s well understood by any interested party. Fission weapons are rather trivial to manufacture, the bottleneck has always been access to high-purity fissile material. Hydrogen bombs OTOH involve a lot of classified stuff.

The precision implosion of the type used on the plutonium core of Trinity (and then Nagasaki) isn't exactly trivial, but a number of nations have pulled it off. I believe the details of the precision explosives and timing for Trinity are still classified.

The Little Boy gun-type detonation of enriched Uranium is indeed fairly trivial, and end for its first use at Hiroshima they were confident enough to deploy it without full scale testing.

Re: Lost Images from the 1945 Trinity Nuclear Test Restored

#92
Been to the Trinity Site a few times. White Sands Missile Range opens it to the public twice a year. I've been there and seen very unusual people with cameras with massive zoom lenses looking at military stuff on the mountains and hills nearby. Totally nothing out of the ordinary with that.......

Re: Lost Images from the 1945 Trinity Nuclear Test Restored

#93

There is a heart breaking documentary about the people who live in the vicinity of the trinity test site, the lack of communication with them around the test, and the lack of recognition and support of their increased rates of cancer and medical spending [1]. I learned a lot from it. While many downwinders [2] gained recognition and compensation for their radiation exposure in the Radiation Exposure Compensation Act…

The link [1] reads:

> On July 4, 2025, in a historic and unexpected move, Congress expanded RECA legislation, finally awarding overdue compensation to New Mexico families. Our newly revised film captures this emotional victory.

Were the families (at the very least) compensated to some extent at last?

Re: Lost Images from the 1945 Trinity Nuclear Test Restored

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah, if Harlan Ellison were alive for the dawn of LLMs as a widespread technology, he would have had many (dangerous) things to say about the copyright issues, and potential horrors

Now we can get an LLM to adopt the persona of Harlan Ellison by fine-tuning it on all of Harlan Ellison’s recorded works and possibly other people’s written reminiscences of their interactions with him and have it generate Ellison-like opinions on the current LLM situation that might be hard to distinguish from Ellison’s actual work. I don’t know if Ellison would be amused or horrified, really. Like some ROM personal…

  > Now we can get an LLM to adopt the persona of Harlan Ellison by fine-tuning it on all of Harlan Ellison’s recorded works and possibly other people’s written reminiscences of their interactions with him and have it generate Ellison-like opinions
someone already did it; harlan ellison (well his voice anyway) as an ai...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_r7sh75258

Re: Lost Images from the 1945 Trinity Nuclear Test Restored

#95
post #14

I suspect the actual first frames are still classified as they likely evidence detonator tech/performance. So the real first moments of the nuclear age will never be shown. (The high-speed cameras would have started filming shortly before the blast.)

I think Peter Kuran has said that the majority of interesting footage is neglected rather than classified. He specializes in X-ray photos of the first few milliseconds.

Do you have a link?

Re: Lost Images from the 1945 Trinity Nuclear Test Restored

#96
post #78

I used to teach a class on the history of contemporary science (WW2-present) and I started the class with Trinity. There’s no other moment better. We know how it turned out, but the people there waiting for the test did not know how it would turn out. The bomb might not have worked. Or it might have ignited a fusion reaction in the atmosphere and destroyed the world. Hans Bethe had sat down and done the calculations…

> Or it might have ignited a fusion reaction in the atmosphere and destroyed the world Someone's got to explain to me how this was even remotely plausible. We've had orders of magnitude more energetic events in earth's history that they would be aware of (dinosaur slaying asteroid for instance). These didn't manage to destroy the earth by turning the atmosphere into a fusion reactor. Surely they were aware of this. S…

People that know more about nuclear physics than I do already answered, but I’ll just say that:

1) It’s easy to think about the past in terms of what we now know, and it involves a real effort to put yourself in the shoes of the people living at the time and to imagine the “fog of war” in what they knew. In 1945 nobody had ever tested a nuclear explosion before and there was still all sorts of uncertainty about it. And as one of the other commenters pointed out, in particular there was a lot of uncertainty about how fusion worked.

2) The center of the Trinity fireball did in fact produce hotter temperatures than had ever existed on Earth before. Temperature and energy being different things.

In some sense the final experimental proof that a nuclear explosion would not set off some unanticipated new chain reaction that would destroy the earth - unlikely, but hard to completely disprove - was Trinity itself. Only after Trinity is it obvious and completely proven how the physics actually worked and obvious that there were no additional reaction pathways that got missed. That is a disturbing thought.

Re: Lost Images from the 1945 Trinity Nuclear Test Restored

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>(from the size of a grapefruit to the size of a lime) Whoa. Its hard to imagine you could have enough conventional explosives to compress a dense metal by ~10x (?). You'd need some serious containment to direct that energy inward rather than outward. I suppose I have some reading to do.

Plutonium was compressed about two-fold by volume. There is a story about it. When they first brainstormed the ways to make the bomb, even before Los Alamos, in 1942, one of the several ideas was to use explosives to throw smaller pieces of material together, to make the super-critical mass. This was dismissed as too imprecise, but it was still listed in the April 1943 as one of the possibilities in the Los Alamos Pr…

The precise timing of the triggers to denotate all those shaped charges at once is just so impressive, especially for the era.

Re: Lost Images from the 1945 Trinity Nuclear Test Restored

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plutonium was compressed about two-fold by volume. There is a story about it. When they first brainstormed the ways to make the bomb, even before Los Alamos, in 1942, one of the several ideas was to use explosives to throw smaller pieces of material together, to make the super-critical mass. This was dismissed as too imprecise, but it was still listed in the April 1943 as one of the possibilities in the Los Alamos Pr…

The precise timing of the triggers to denotate all those shaped charges at once is just so impressive, especially for the era.

They struggled with many things, often time the minutiae of accomplishing something conceptually rather simple. For example, making an explosive with a significantly slower detonation velocity turned out to be very tricky. The concept was simple -- just add some barium nitrate to the TNT. But if you just did that, the mixture stopped flowing nicely, and it still was either not slow enough, or refused to explode at all. Extreme technological nuances were required just to prepare a mixture of two simple ingredients before satisfactory results were obtained. This one thing was its own research project.

Accurately casting explosive in odd shapes, without different ingredients separating, and without producing voids when the melt solidified, required developing a whole new technology with careful gradients of temperature in the molds.

They tried lots of different commercial and handmade detonators to find which ones would work most consistently. That took an awful lot of time.

The electronics itself was probably least difficult -- a microsecond was already a very long time for the electronic circuits even in 1945. One could use an off the shelf oscilloscope to see if the detonators worked simultaneously or not. Incidentally, 2/3 of the cables in the famous picture of the "Gadget" are not the detonators, but the simultaneity sensors -- reporting the difference between the earliest and the latest detonation fronts.

Everything was tested extremely extensively. Tremendous resources were spent on testing and test equipment. All in all somewhere between 20000 and 40000 explosive tests were performed at Los Alamos during the project.

It is not often emphasized how much of the work was done in the explosives laboratory in Pittsburgh before passing it on to Los Alamos. They have developed the slow explosive. They also reproduced from the earlier British work and further developed and tested the concept of the lenses, together with many other more advanced things which did not find an immediate application in the bomb. The director of the laboratory, George Kistyakowsky, took over the explosives work at Los Alamos, once the implosion became the main focus of the project.

Re: Lost Images from the 1945 Trinity Nuclear Test Restored

#100

I went and visited the Trinity site a bunch of years back during the open house day in October. They gave us a little pamphlet at the gate that said there was no radiation danger to worry about. Then we passed signs along the way to the site saying things like, "don't eat, don't drink, don't apply make-up, don't rub your eyes." The mixed messages didn't exactly inspire confidence. You can see the few little bits of t…

I remember similar warnings from when I visited Chernobyl ~20 years ago. The ambient radiation exposure was not that different from the average flight, but there could be some actual risks if you accidentally ingest radioactive dust.

I know the Chernobyl fallout had a pretty significant impact on agricultural in the region, but I don't think I've ever heard about anything similar in New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma, or Colorado. Why not? Surely there is less agricultural activity on the American West than in Eastern Europe, but is that the only reason?
Post reply on HN