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Tennessee man jailed 37 days for Trump meme wins settlement after lawsuit

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Re: Tennessee man jailed 37 days for Trump meme wins settlement after lawsuit

#91

Post by ceejayoz »

ikeboy wrote: post #87
ceejayoz wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's nearly impossible to get paid for malicious prosecution by the federal government. We'll see. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-... > See e.g. Douglass Mackey. He posted some misleading memes on Twitter about the election, falsely claiming that people could vote by text, and got arrested and found guilty at trial until eventually the 2nd circuit said that what he did wasn't a crime. S…

I've read the second circuit opinion and saying that it was legal is a fair takeaway. They didn't reach the 1st amendment grounds though because they didn't need to once determining that he didn't conspire as required (technically, they didn't prove he conspired.) Of course any two cases are going to be different, and the guy posting memes on your side is going to be more sympathetic to you than the guy posting memes…

That doesn't seem so hard. Per this article:

> That meme — which Larry didn’t create or alter...

> Weems admitted in a later interview that he knew at the time of the arrest that Larry’s Facebook post was a pre-existing meme that referred to an actual shooting that took place in a different state, over 500 miles away…

He didn't create it, the meme was accurate, and the cops knew that. Every bit of the conduct they attempted to punish was clearly legal, and they knew it.

The opinion you reference is at https://ww3.ca2.uscourts.gov/decisions/OPN/23-7577_opn.pdf.

"cannot alone establish Mackey’s knowing agreement" clearly indicates that things would have been different if they could have established that conduct.

Re: Tennessee man jailed 37 days for Trump meme wins settlement after lawsuit

#92

Post by mlmonkey »

Giving some of the taxpayers' money back as a fine is no victory.

Victory would be if the Sheriff and others involved actually went to jail.

Until that happens, expect other power-trippers to keep doing such things. After all, what do they have to lose? Not a penny! Since the fine comes out of the pool of money that taxpayers collected!

Re: Tennessee man jailed 37 days for Trump meme wins settlement after lawsuit

#93

Post by TimTheTinker »

Arubis wrote: post #54
contubernio wrote: post #28

The sheriff that arrested him should face criminal charges for misuse of authority. That he doesn't reflects a structural weakness in US law. In most European legal systems a law enforcement officer overstepping his legal authority would face criminal charges for it.

In a sane, fair, and (crucially) long-term stable system, persons given privilege and authority over others are subject to a higher standard for their own behavior. The long-running US trend of the inverse (additional legal protections for positions of authority) is incredibly destructive. This is a moral and values judgment, yes, but it's not just that -- it communicates to the population at large that they should f…

One of the worst examples in the US is the consequence asymmetry for speech. Law enforcement and federal agents can lie as much as they like with impunity when dealing with citizens, but (a) it's a federal crime to lie to a federal officer (18 US Code § 1001, up to 8 years imprisonment), and (b) truly, anything you say to law enforcement when under any suspicion can and will be used against you in a court of law, even the act of pleading the 5th, regardless of (or perhaps especially because of) your innocence. "I want a lawyer", repeated ad-nauseam, is always the least harmful response, regardless of context[0].

Also, the body of federal law and regulations is so vast that smart people estimate the average person unknowingly breaks roughly 3 federal criminal laws per day[1], giving the federal government the legal ability to arbitrarily arrest anyone they want.

[0] James Duane, You have the right to remain innocent, 2016

[1] Harvey Silverglate, Three Felonies a Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent, 2011.

Re: Tennessee man jailed 37 days for Trump meme wins settlement after lawsuit

#94

Post by ikeboy »

ceejayoz wrote: post #80
ikeboy wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The magistrate judge is supposed to be a check on that power. Unfortunately, they've become rubber stamps for the most part. In a functioning system, the judge would block the warrant and arrest. I think there are ways to have a system where judges do that, without having to criminally prosecute either cops or judges.

> In a functioning system, the judge would block the warrant and arrest. But they lied to obtain the warrant.

OP says that they left out information (which cops do all the time) but that the warrant shouldn't have been granted either way because of SCOTUS precedent.

Would welcome reform that makes it harder to lie on warrant affidavits, although again, that should be civil in nature.

Re: Tennessee man jailed 37 days for Trump meme wins settlement after lawsuit

#95

Post by petsfed »

db48x wrote: post #73
vitally3643 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a structural weakness, it's an intentional feature . Our legislature specifically and intentionally made it impossible for citizens (or anyone) to hold police responsible for anything.

This is a misunderstanding. In most cases you cannot sue the federal and state governments, with very important exceptions, but you can definitely sue the police. Government officials, such as the police, usually only have _qualified_ immunity rather than absolute or sovereign immunity, and even then only when they were acting in good faith and are not being accused of violating someone’s constitutional rights. The r…

Which has led to police officers using "the punishment I received is far in excess of the last time an officer of this department was punished for habitually arresting and raping minors!" as a defense, and it works.

Re: Tennessee man jailed 37 days for Trump meme wins settlement after lawsuit

#96

Post by jasonlotito »

ceejayoz wrote: post #62
russdill wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the taxpayers should not face accountability for who they elect?

Did this guy campaign on "I'll violate the First Amendment" or something? What level of taxpayer due dilligence are you envisioning here?

> Did this guy campaign on "I'll violate the First Amendment" or something?

No, he did not literally campaign on those specific words.

Did he align himself with people who have and continue to violate the First Amendment (among many others)?

Yes.

> What level of taxpayer due dilligence are you envisioning here?

About 5 minutes.

Re: Tennessee man jailed 37 days for Trump meme wins settlement after lawsuit

#97

Post by ikeboy »

caconym_ wrote: post #84
ikeboy wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The system needs to change so pursuing frivolous or weak charges doesn't work. We also need to reform bail, which has gone way outside of historical/constitutional norms. Turning it into an escalating back and forth of each side trying to imprison the other, is not conducive to the kind of change we need. To take a recent example, while I don't particularly like James Comey or Letitia James, I don't think they should…

I don't think both-sidesing this is particularly appropriate. Law enforcement officers who abuse their position to harm people under false pretenses should be prosecuted as criminals, because that's what they are. This is true in any political environment and entirely distinct from the Trump administration's malicious and baseless abuse of the legal system against Trump's perceived enemies. You are demonstrating what…

Public trust should be lost, because these institutions were never trustworthy.

I am not both sidesing. I'm saying that there are better reform options than adding additional criminal statutes that are likely to be abused.

Put simply, do you want the Trump administration to be able to bring criminal charges against any prosecutor or judge that they can argue brought a bad case?

Re: Tennessee man jailed 37 days for Trump meme wins settlement after lawsuit

#98

Post by echelon »

Arubis wrote: post #54
contubernio wrote: post #28

The sheriff that arrested him should face criminal charges for misuse of authority. That he doesn't reflects a structural weakness in US law. In most European legal systems a law enforcement officer overstepping his legal authority would face criminal charges for it.

In a sane, fair, and (crucially) long-term stable system, persons given privilege and authority over others are subject to a higher standard for their own behavior. The long-running US trend of the inverse (additional legal protections for positions of authority) is incredibly destructive. This is a moral and values judgment, yes, but it's not just that -- it communicates to the population at large that they should f…

> In a sane, fair, and (crucially) long-term stable system, persons given privilege and authority over others are subject to a higher standard for their own behavior.

The US military is subject to a higher standard, the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Penalties for US service members breaking the law or codes of conduct are much higher and much more severe than civilians. The US military makes routine example of law breakers and misconduct.

The US police force, by contrast, is civilian. They are not licensed, commissioned, or subject to additional standards. Certainly not nationwide standards that would bar police removed from their post from finding similar work elsewhere.

We should pay our police officers more, make them undergo nationally standardized training and licensing, and then hold them to a higher standard if and when they break the law.

Police court-martial.

Re: Tennessee man jailed 37 days for Trump meme wins settlement after lawsuit

#99

Post by okeuro49 »

Manuel_D wrote: post #85
okeuro49 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK 30 people are arrested a day for social media posts online. Only about 10 percent resulting in convictions. Police don't face criminal charges for this. https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/police-make-30-arr...

The UK has different speech laws than the United States. Presumably, the actions of the police making those arrests are within the scope of UK law. Even if 90% don't result in a conviction, the police may still be operating within the scope of their authority in those arrests.

[flagged]

Re: Tennessee man jailed 37 days for Trump meme wins settlement after lawsuit

#100

Post by JumpCrisscross »

contubernio wrote: post #28

The sheriff that arrested him should face criminal charges for misuse of authority. That he doesn't reflects a structural weakness in US law. In most European legal systems a law enforcement officer overstepping his legal authority would face criminal charges for it.

> sheriff that arrested him should face criminal charges for misuse of authority

Eh, just fire him and garnish a portion of his future wages to pay back the cost to the city.

> In most European legal systems a law enforcement officer overstepping his legal authority would face criminal charges for it

Do you have a recent example?

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