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US bill proposes new national EV tax, while some push to slash gas tax to zero

electrek.co

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Re: US bill proposes new national EV tax, while some push to slash gas tax to zero

#91

Post by croon »

legitster wrote: post #49
tw04 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The current compromise is to collect it once at a federal level and split the proceeds with the states. This has problems, but it's better than having every state track individual mileage on public roads (ew). “Has problems” is an interesting way to gloss over we’ve got an administration that has openly declared war on any state he didn’t win and will no doubt withhold funds from the states he doesn't like, the sam…

> I literally cannot think of a worse way to enforce this than letting the federal government collect the tax and then distribute it to the states as they see fit. I mean, this is more or less how it already works with all the federal department funding. The same administration wants to abolish the Department of Education which is guilty of the same thing. So no side is really being consistent in this particular area…

> I mean, this is more or less how it already works with all the federal department funding

Which is why it's bad to add to that.

> The same administration wants to abolish the Department of Education which is guilty of the same thing. So no side is really being consistent in this particular area.

I'm not aware of a time where DoE was used as a political cudgel against specific states, care to elaborate here?

That DoE can allogate disproportionately from wealthier states to poorer states based on need isn't the issue. The issue is when it's based on spite.

Re: US bill proposes new national EV tax, while some push to slash gas tax to zero

#92

Post by neogodless »

daft_pink wrote: post #65

I think the biggest problem is that EVs and hybrids travel less total miles on the road due to their nature, so it should be an odometer based price based on actual usage not a punitive high dollar amount compared to a gas vehicle.

https://its.ucdavis.edu/blog/no-electric-vehicles-arent-driv...

This 5 year old study suggests that some early reports (on early EVs) lead us to believe that it was a universal truth. After all, the early BMW i3 and Nissan Leaf only had ~50-75 mile range. But even as far back as 2019, that had changed, and electric cars were being driven as much, and often more, than their gasoline equivalents.

See also https://evpowered.co.uk/news/evs-now-clocking-up-more-miles-...

Re: US bill proposes new national EV tax, while some push to slash gas tax to zero

#93

Post by seanmcdirmid »

stavros wrote: post #85
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and they have been for a few years now. I don’t know of a state that doesn’t charge higher tab fees for EVs in 2026. Maybe Alaska?

> Are EVs that widespread in the US already > Yes, and they have been for a few years now. Apparently they're 1.9% of all vehicles currently on the road, do you consider that to be "that widespread"? I was aiming for 51%. > I don’t know of a state that doesn’t charge higher tab fees for EVs in 2026 That doesn't mean EVs are widespread, it just means states want to favor ICEs more than EVs.

I’m pretty sure the “every other car is a Tesla” phenomena is localized, but still widespread in the sense that it was 0% not too long ago.

Re: US bill proposes new national EV tax, while some push to slash gas tax to zero

#94

Post by xethos »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #76
TurdF3rguson wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A disincentive to replace your tires? What could go wrong.

Can't save them all.

We're discussing a country that bases "Safety ratings" by how well they protect the driver, and ignore every other person outside the vehicle - meaning the people least likely to be hurt here are the ones trying to cheat the tax

Re: US bill proposes new national EV tax, while some push to slash gas tax to zero

#95

Post by BobaFloutist »

stavros wrote: post #20
jaredwiener wrote: post #13

Zeroing out the gas tax aside, the EV tax makes _some_ sense. Gas taxes provide the revenue that help pay for road maintenance and the rest of the infrastructure that cars use. Gas taxes made sense -- the more you drive, the more you chip in to keep the road system going. That infrastructure still needs to exist, and will still cost money to maintain -- but if fewer people are buying gas, then the funds will dry up,…

Are EVs that widespread in the US already that you're at the stage where you need to move from incentivising EV purchases to normalising their taxation?

I think future proofing taxation now rather than waiting until enough people have EVs to try to resist it isn't a bad call, and can easily live in parallel with wanting to subsidize broader adoption.

Re: US bill proposes new national EV tax, while some push to slash gas tax to zero

#96

Post by stavros »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #95
stavros wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are EVs that widespread in the US already that you're at the stage where you need to move from incentivising EV purchases to normalising their taxation?

I think future proofing taxation now rather than waiting until enough people have EVs to try to resist it isn't a bad call, and can easily live in parallel with wanting to subsidize broader adoption.

But then if it's that, why isn't it a general road tax per vehicle weight/class, and an extra EV subsidy on top?

Re: US bill proposes new national EV tax, while some push to slash gas tax to zero

#97

Post by legitster »

croon wrote: post #91
legitster wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I literally cannot think of a worse way to enforce this than letting the federal government collect the tax and then distribute it to the states as they see fit. I mean, this is more or less how it already works with all the federal department funding. The same administration wants to abolish the Department of Education which is guilty of the same thing. So no side is really being consistent in this particular area…

> I mean, this is more or less how it already works with all the federal department funding Which is why it's bad to add to that. > The same administration wants to abolish the Department of Education which is guilty of the same thing. So no side is really being consistent in this particular area. I'm not aware of a time where DoE was used as a political cudgel against specific states, care to elaborate here? That Do…

> The issue is when it's based on spite.

Obviously nobody has weaponized these agencies like Trump. But it's worth pointing out that the way DoE funds have been doled out over the years have been deferential and usually follow each administrations' pet projects.

It's a fair criticism to have over a national EV road tax as well, but it's not that unusual a precedent.

Re: US bill proposes new national EV tax, while some push to slash gas tax to zero

#98

Post by dzhiurgis »

csto12 wrote: post #79
dzhiurgis wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been paying my EV tax for 1.5 years now in NZ. It's about 2x more than hybrid cars pay thru tax. Just dropped $800 for the next 10k km. Also some sort of registration rebate has been removed so another $100 per year.

How much do gas cars pay in tax?

Equivalent to 8l/100km (29mpg) which is kinda a lot for NZ cars. Hybrids here are more around 4l/100km (58mpg).

Re: US bill proposes new national EV tax, while some push to slash gas tax to zero

#99

Post by dzhiurgis »

tedd4u wrote: post #60
nayuki wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your comment a lot. My ideal for road pricing is something like a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_miles_traveled_tax multiplied by weight (maybe squared, due to the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law of road damage). I do think that a lot of people think that public roads are "free" and cost nothing to build and maintain. It is really hard to make people think about where the labor, mat…

Really this shows that the operators of 18-wheelers should be paying a lot more. Looks like diesel tax is 20-30% higher, not proportional to the thousands of times more damage the 4th power law implies. (A half-full 18 wheeler is about 40,000 pounds so, let's say 10x the weight of a passenger car).

If I extrapolate how much more road wear is caused by a bus and multiply by a EV fee we pay in NZ ($8 NZD / 100km), it would be cheaper to just zoom every passenger in their own Uber.

It's probably fake, but recently someone circulated a figure how much a $5 or $6 bus fare actually costs in Auckland - it's about $40 IIRC.

On flip side I do love rapid bus innovation in Auckland, when it works it works pretty well.

Re: US bill proposes new national EV tax, while some push to slash gas tax to zero

#100

Post by imglorp »

Jblx2 wrote: post #33
imglorp wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We also subsidize fossil fuels at around US$800 B/year direct, and much more than that indirect (wars, pollution, warming etc). A 100% fossil tax is what we need to kick that habit.

>subsidize fossil fuels at around US$800 B/year direct I would like to see a source for that. Usually this is from someone who thinks corporate taxes should be on gross revenue instead of profit.

https://fossilfuelsubsidytracker.org

Globally it was 1.6 T in 2022, direct.

For what they call implicit subsidies, IMF thinks it was $6.7T in 2024. https://www.imf.org/en/publications/wp/issues/2025/12/20/und...

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