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Mistral's CEO: Europe has 2 years to stop becoming America's AI 'vassal state'

businessinsider.com

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Re: Mistral's CEO: Europe has 2 years to stop becoming America's AI 'vassal state'

#91

Post by teekert »

stavros wrote: post #78
jstummbillig wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you divorce being a European principally from being willing to pay taxes? What part of being uniquely European do you value that does not fundamentally require taxes?

I have to say, I visited Zurich once, and everything was clean, organized, civilized, and pretty. Friends told me taxes are high but you get great education, great healthcare, decent disposable income, and good transportation. If you get laid off, the state continues paying your previous salary for one (two?) years. If everything is taken care of me from taxes, why do I need money? Take it all.

FWIW Zurich feels like that to me too, and I'm from the Netherlands :)

Re: Mistral's CEO: Europe has 2 years to stop becoming America's AI 'vassal state'

#92

Post by amunozo »

stavros wrote: post #78
jstummbillig wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you divorce being a European principally from being willing to pay taxes? What part of being uniquely European do you value that does not fundamentally require taxes?

I have to say, I visited Zurich once, and everything was clean, organized, civilized, and pretty. Friends told me taxes are high but you get great education, great healthcare, decent disposable income, and good transportation. If you get laid off, the state continues paying your previous salary for one (two?) years. If everything is taken care of me from taxes, why do I need money? Take it all.

Well, Zurich is everything but representative of Europe. Switzerland has much lower taxes and higher salaries than the rest of Europe.

Re: Mistral's CEO: Europe has 2 years to stop becoming America's AI 'vassal state'

#93

Post by awestroke »

ejoso wrote: post #71
awestroke wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it ever comes to that, we'll pick China, thanks

So you’d enjoy being like the free and happy people of Tibet then, eh?

Lesser of two evils etc. How about south america as a counterexample?

Re: Mistral's CEO: Europe has 2 years to stop becoming America's AI 'vassal state'

#94

Post by radicalbyte »

jstummbillig wrote: post #69
Insanity wrote: post #26

As a European I want mistral and EU to do well. But at the same time, I wouldn’t actually give up my well paid engineering job outside of EU to even entertain working for them in EU. Too low salaries and too high taxes.

How do you divorce being a European principally from being willing to pay taxes? What part of being uniquely European do you value that does not fundamentally require taxes?

The problem with taxes in Europe are that the ultra-wealthy don't pay them. That burden is particularly focused on those who are high wage earners. If I look at my own country, as a high earner I'm paying close to a 50% effective tax rate (a little less with mortgage interest deductions). However the billionaire families who own the beer brewers, shipping companies and agraculture companies are paying well under 0.5% effective. They pay less than in the US. Due to this reason we're one of the most infamous tax dodge countries in Europe, apparently the Swedish and German billionaires have tax residency to avoid paying it.

Re: Mistral's CEO: Europe has 2 years to stop becoming America's AI 'vassal state'

#95

Post by raincole »

In other words, "EU governments please give me money."

Not saying that American companies are better in this regard, but if we interpret each CEO's words with the same scrutiny as how we view Elon or Altman's words... that's pretty much it.

Re: Mistral's CEO: Europe has 2 years to stop becoming America's AI 'vassal state'

#96

Post by rdm_blackhole »

amunozo wrote: post #9
barbacoa wrote: post #3

America innovates, China replicates, Europe regulates.

Always the same ridiculous statement.

I mean we are still waiting for the European Apple or Microsoft or Google or anything of that scale aren't we? China has it's own version of all this stuff, where is Europe's?

Re: Mistral's CEO: Europe has 2 years to stop becoming America's AI 'vassal state'

#97

Post by sublinear »

radicalbyte wrote: post #72
xyzsparetimexyz wrote: post #39

Europe is never going to have sovereignty in a lot of areas. A vassal of the US or a vassal of China. Pick your poison.

A vassal of California. I know we like to say that tech is the US but that's not true. It is almost completely focused around a small part of California. Take that out and Europe and the US are comparable with respect to software tech at least. Europe has a golden chance with the current mass outflux of talent from the US and I really hope we grasp it. I just don't see my country (NL) doing that as our political clas…

This is wildly out of touch. More than half the jobs in software in the USA are not even on the west coast, let alone California.

The broader business world isn't "big tech", but it's still bigger than it.

Re: Mistral's CEO: Europe has 2 years to stop becoming America's AI 'vassal state'

#98

Post by radicalbyte »

I've read the article and I kind of agree with some of the things he's saying. It's more than just AI though. Energy is the big problem and the big problem there is that we're just not ramping up renewables quickly enough. Why? Corruption of course. We had a big leaded 15-20 years ago but the German car manufactorers and British/Dutch oil companies applied a huge amount of political pressure, aided by American interests, which not just slowed the transition but also helped strangle our solar/wind industry. It's not a lost cause though, at EU level they could absolutely make it happen.

Re: Mistral's CEO: Europe has 2 years to stop becoming America's AI 'vassal state'

#99

Post by logicchains »

teekert wrote: post #90
jstummbillig wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No

No but to come to Europa, you get less differences in wealth (essentially) universal healthcare at low/reasonable cost (ie, I can get cancer and not feel it financially), and a lot of state support when you're out of a job. Etc. Thos things cost tax money.

>you get less differences in wealth

Yes so if you were in the higher percentiles of wealth, like many engineers in the US, you'd end up with less wealth in Europe, while if you were in the lower percentiles then in Europe you'd end up with more wealth. That's how redistribution works, the top 10% of income earners end up with less (even after accounting for healthcare and education; they get back less then they put in), and US software engineers are in the top 10% of income earners.

Re: Mistral's CEO: Europe has 2 years to stop becoming America's AI 'vassal state'

#100

Post by radicalbyte »

raincole wrote: post #95

In other words, "EU governments please give me money." Not saying that American companies are better in this regard, but if we interpret each CEO's words with the same scrutiny as how we view Elon or Altman's words... that's pretty much it.

I'd like to regulate them the way American companies are regulated, and then regulate American companies in Europe the way European companies are regulated. Level the playing field.

Not exactly rocket science, it's just copying the things the Americans (and Chinese) are already doing.

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