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We've made the world too complicated

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Re: We've made the world too complicated

#91

Post by Terr_ »

KurSix wrote: post #7
_nxwj wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference I'm trying to discuss is when humans started molding the world to our desires in the forms of agriculture, raising animals as resources, and interfering with ecological cycles. You are right, living in the natural world today would be impossible for most people, requiring generations of local knowledge spread across the community. I should have clarified my meaning of complexity as that which is purely…

Maybe the key difference is that natural complexity asks for adaptation, while human-made complexity often asks for submission

You mean like this?

A: If you eat this plant before boiling it, it kills you. By boiling it first, I've submitted to natural complexity.

B: If you touch this wire without turning off the power, it kills you. By turning it off first, I've adapted to artificial complexity.

You're just picking between two near-synonyms based on how one sounds scarier.

Re: We've made the world too complicated

#93

Post by _DeadFred_ »

_nxwj wrote: post #73
hnthrowaway0315 wrote: post #36

Well that's how you get convenience and comfort. That's how you build civilizations. Specialization started many millennium ago, when people probably didn't know much, if anything, about other careers. I'm sure we all want to throw away working laptops, get out and enjoy nature sometimes. But no, LIVING in the nature is completely a different thing. Camping for a few days or even a month might be fine, but most peopl…

I've read many accounts of the lives of mostly hunter-gatherer tribes living far more care-free and convenient lives. Yes they had no way of treating most diseases, facing natural disasters, and preventable deaths, but from what I understand the reports of scarcity and constant danger are far overblown, at least within certain periods. https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2025/09/anthropological-summer/

Wasn't the whole point, to get so good at things we got back to that eventually? I don't even understand what the point/goal/target is anymore? Like we forgot society should be getting better every year. Or it used to be the conservative towns that had beautiful tree lined streets, but now it's conservative to NOT plant anything for the future. What is it all for at this point?

Re: We've made the world too complicated

#94

Post by rrgok »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #93
_nxwj wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read many accounts of the lives of mostly hunter-gatherer tribes living far more care-free and convenient lives. Yes they had no way of treating most diseases, facing natural disasters, and preventable deaths, but from what I understand the reports of scarcity and constant danger are far overblown, at least within certain periods. https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2025/09/anthropological-summer/

Wasn't the whole point, to get so good at things we got back to that eventually? I don't even understand what the point/goal/target is anymore? Like we forgot society should be getting better every year. Or it used to be the conservative towns that had beautiful tree lined streets, but now it's conservative to NOT plant anything for the future. What is it all for at this point?

Man that's what I've been asking people all the time: what is our end goal? When will we say "this is enough", we can stop here? If we don't know the answers for these question, then we better find answers before going "forward" blindly.

Re: We've made the world too complicated

#96

Post by MichaelZuo »

keiferski wrote: post #49

I think this feeling of everything being too complex is a natural consequence of work that is done for long-term abstract ends, rather than immediate and local ones. At least I think it is for me. Working remotely for an international software company is great for its lifestyle flexibility, but sometimes I just want to be a baker, chef, bike repairman, etc. that solves an immediate problem for a real person standing…

Hmmm… when you put it that way it seems almost tautological.

If complex work could be graspable to the common man, it would no longer be considered as such.

Some new, even more sophisticated work would arise and take its place.

Re: We've made the world too complicated

#97

Post by tardedmeme »

patwards wrote: post #95

I was trying to explain to my wife how I felt last night. AI and the pressure to use it and balancing the potential and with the pitfalls is stressing me out. But it’s more than that. This post perfectly captures the feeling.

What is the potential, besides more mail spam and better google search (that isn't owned by google)?

Re: We've made the world too complicated

#98

Post by MajorTakeaway »

patwards wrote: post #95

I was trying to explain to my wife how I felt last night. AI and the pressure to use it and balancing the potential and with the pitfalls is stressing me out. But it’s more than that. This post perfectly captures the feeling.

You're really not alone in this. Nature exposure has helped a lot since the industrial revolution as far as any mental health concerns go. A return to the old world, full of trees and brush is still there for all of us.

This is what people mean by 'Go touch grass'. They're not being literal but it's a few simple words that just say go experience primitive roots for a few hours and come back to the artificial world we've created for ourselves.

I used to reject the particular notion until I went outside and depending on where you live, you might experience verbally hostile people if you're alone. Which goes to show there are others feeling far worse if they're being verbally hostile to random people.

The more I read HN symptoms the more I point to trees.

Re: We've made the world too complicated

#99

Post by tardedmeme »

squidbeak wrote: post #59

I won't guess at the age of the author, but this feeling seems to creep over people as they age, and always has. Today's complexity seems simple for fresh minds that have grown up alongside it. Meanwhile the simplicity that tired, bewildered older minds hark back to as a golden norm appalled the older minds at the time. Almost universally, the response in older generations seems to be to look for simple solutions and…

Could this be because older people have more memories of when certain things were better than they are now?
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