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Why tiny Stockholm has the most stunning startup ecosystem since Tel Aviv

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Re: Why tiny Stockholm has the most stunning startup ecosystem since Tel Aviv

#91

Post by padraigm »

winter_blue wrote: post #79
beagle3 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How high are the taxes in Sweden? Highest bracket in Tel-Aviv is, as far as I know, ~60% (50% income tax + 10% health/social taxes) + 17% VAT (=~sales tax equivalent, essentially applicable to individuals but less so to companies) Highest bracket in NYC as of 2013 (unless the "fiscal cliff" is averted) is a few % short of 60% (40% federal, 13% state, 2% fica, 2% social security, and a few more). If the fiscal cliff i…

The U.A.E. is a country where you have zero , yep zero taxes. Dubai is a pretty great city to live in, and it's not that expensive. You could live well easily on $1000/month. The only downside to U.A.E. is that the tech scene is barely starting up. So you'd have to find talent abroad. On the bright side, it's fairly easy to get visas both to bring people over and to start your own company.

I'd consider the flagrant human rights abuses in the U.A.E. to be a pretty substantial downside. The U.A.E. routinely imprisons rape victims for extramarital sex, imprisons or castrates people convicted of homosexuality. There is little or no protection for freedom of speech or of the press, etc. The U.A.E. would be a terrible country to live and work in, and a low cost of living does nothing to change that.

Re: Why tiny Stockholm has the most stunning startup ecosystem since Tel Aviv

#92

Post by purplelobster »

lrem wrote: post #47
beagle3 wrote: post #28

Every single experience I've had with a swede, (technical, entrepreneur, or otherwise) has been extremely pleasant. It might be selection bias - most of those that I've met were outside sweden at the time I met them - but from spending some time in Lund, I got the impression that it's a national trait, to the point that I have considered moving to sweden for a few years if the stars align properly. Perhaps we can hav…

Beware of possible problems when relocating. I know an experienced graphic designer who moved there, due to personal reasons, to see her career go to a sudden stop. At some point she forced a HR person from one of the companies ignoring her CV to answer why. It went more or less like that: - Oh, that's simple, you completely lack experience. - Have you missed the entries in my CV? - No, but none of them was in Sweden…

Where did she gain her experience? I don't want to assume anything, but I think experience from some countries are looked more favorable upon, but I could be wrong.

Re: Why tiny Stockholm has the most stunning startup ecosystem since Tel Aviv

#93

Post by purplelobster »

_delirium wrote: post #72
progn wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds just like Seattle, then: perfection.

Like Seattle but colder and darker. Example: Seattle in mid-December is typically mid-40s F with sunset around 4:15pm, while Stockholm is typically mid-30s F with sunset around 2:45pm. Also, more snow, but actually slightly less cloudy.

I've lived in both, and I think I prefer Seattle a little bit. It's pretty close though, because while Stockholm is colder and have shorter days for a longer period of time, Seattle is gray for literally 200 days straight. Stockholm can be pretty gray too, but you get nice winter days pretty often, with white snow and sunny days. Summers in Seattle are preferable though, very dry compared to Stockholm.

Re: Why tiny Stockholm has the most stunning startup ecosystem since Tel Aviv

#94

Post by dantheman »

beagle3 wrote: post #90
onetwothreefour wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hehe. Yeah. Most people don't realise that the US has insanely high taxes for almost zero in return. Plus, double taxation on corporate profits. Most sane countries have things like franking credits where owners only pay to top up from the corporate rate to the personal rate. You can sort of get around this in the US with a S Corp, but you're still paying something like ~50% for zero social services. Let's not forget…

I disagree that corporate tax is double taxation: It is the premium you pay for limited liability. You can run things personally, thus avoiding the higher ("double") taxation, but then if you are successfully sued, you can lose everything you ever earned. Whereas a corporate structure shields you from personal liability (theoretically, not including criminal liability - but in practice, it's quite effective for crimi…

There are many different corporate structures, the sole proprietorship provides the limited liability without double taxation.

Re: Why tiny Stockholm has the most stunning startup ecosystem since Tel Aviv

#95

Post by mbesto »

winter_blue wrote: post #79
beagle3 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How high are the taxes in Sweden? Highest bracket in Tel-Aviv is, as far as I know, ~60% (50% income tax + 10% health/social taxes) + 17% VAT (=~sales tax equivalent, essentially applicable to individuals but less so to companies) Highest bracket in NYC as of 2013 (unless the "fiscal cliff" is averted) is a few % short of 60% (40% federal, 13% state, 2% fica, 2% social security, and a few more). If the fiscal cliff i…

The U.A.E. is a country where you have zero , yep zero taxes. Dubai is a pretty great city to live in, and it's not that expensive. You could live well easily on $1000/month. The only downside to U.A.E. is that the tech scene is barely starting up. So you'd have to find talent abroad. On the bright side, it's fairly easy to get visas both to bring people over and to start your own company.

And a UAE national has to own part of your company in order for you to start one...

Re: Why tiny Stockholm has the most stunning startup ecosystem since Tel Aviv

#96

Post by beagle3 »

dantheman wrote: post #94
beagle3 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that corporate tax is double taxation: It is the premium you pay for limited liability. You can run things personally, thus avoiding the higher ("double") taxation, but then if you are successfully sued, you can lose everything you ever earned. Whereas a corporate structure shields you from personal liability (theoretically, not including criminal liability - but in practice, it's quite effective for crimi…

There are many different corporate structures, the sole proprietorship provides the limited liability without double taxation.

According to http://www.nytimes.com/allbusiness/AB4113314_primary.html (and just about every other source google points me to) , a sole proprietor has unlimited personal liability for the obligations of the business.

What's your source for saying that it provides limited liability?

Re: Why tiny Stockholm has the most stunning startup ecosystem since Tel Aviv

#97

Post by lrem »

purplelobster wrote: post #92
lrem wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beware of possible problems when relocating. I know an experienced graphic designer who moved there, due to personal reasons, to see her career go to a sudden stop. At some point she forced a HR person from one of the companies ignoring her CV to answer why. It went more or less like that: - Oh, that's simple, you completely lack experience. - Have you missed the entries in my CV? - No, but none of them was in Sweden…

Where did she gain her experience? I don't want to assume anything, but I think experience from some countries are looked more favorable upon, but I could be wrong.

That's probable. She worked in Poland, usually for big international companies. The last one was actually a Swedish one, but apparently being located in an office on the other side of a pond invalidates your experience.

That, or this was just an excuse to hide a real reason (could be pretty well crisis-induced).

Re: Why tiny Stockholm has the most stunning startup ecosystem since Tel Aviv

#98

Post by mcpie »

zalew wrote: post #53
flexie wrote: post #22

I think the article forgets one reason why Scandinavian countries do well in IT start ups: Allmost all Scandinavians speak English quite well. Given that most new technology and research is communicated in English, a decent level of English is necessary to adapt new technology. This gives Scandinavians and Dutch entrepreneurs an edge compared to most other European entrepreneurs, except obviously the Irish and Britis…

> This gives Scandinavians and Dutch entrepreneurs an edge compared to most other European entrepreneurs how? the world's ranking of english proficiency is dominated by Europeans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EF_English_Proficiency_Index#2... I am pretty sure among the IT branch the scores are much higher although you don't need perfect language skills to understand technical concepts.

You do need language skills for the marketing :)

Re: Why tiny Stockholm has the most stunning startup ecosystem since Tel Aviv

#99

Post by onetwothreefour »

beagle3 wrote: post #90
onetwothreefour wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hehe. Yeah. Most people don't realise that the US has insanely high taxes for almost zero in return. Plus, double taxation on corporate profits. Most sane countries have things like franking credits where owners only pay to top up from the corporate rate to the personal rate. You can sort of get around this in the US with a S Corp, but you're still paying something like ~50% for zero social services. Let's not forget…

I disagree that corporate tax is double taxation: It is the premium you pay for limited liability. You can run things personally, thus avoiding the higher ("double") taxation, but then if you are successfully sued, you can lose everything you ever earned. Whereas a corporate structure shields you from personal liability (theoretically, not including criminal liability - but in practice, it's quite effective for crimi…

I don't see how limited liability is an argument for double taxation when 9/10 Western democracies have franking credit systems that eliminate the double taxation on corporate profits paid to owners (and I'm only addressing this from a startup owner perspective, since this is HN).

The simple fact is that the US has something like this already, with qualified dividends taxed at 15% to try to reduce the burden of double taxation. That's still not low enough.

The point is moot when you start talking about S Corps since those offer the same limited liability while passing through the tax burden onto the shareholders directly.

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