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Leaving the Physical World

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Re: Leaving the Physical World

#91

Post by Terr_ »

Tomte wrote: post #63
virgildotcodes wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, yeah I'm confused, they said "as a citizen of the third world" but then noted working in Korea and Japan.

Third world is historically outside the American (first world) and Soviet bloc (second world). I don‘t think it‘s terribly relevant today, but why beat around the bush? Let‘s call it how we mean it: Poor.

> Third world is historically outside the American (first world) and Soviet bloc (second world).

Right, and Korea is so incredibly-not "third world" that there's literally an armed border chopped across it dividing the extremely-First part from the extremely-Second part.

In fact, I don't think there's a single third-world country (cold-war definition) anywhere within 2,000 miles.

Re: Leaving the Physical World

#92

Post by snozolli »

whall6 wrote: post #89
snozolli wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the majority of the workforce doing, then? People working in fast food, welders, plumbers, carpenters, laborers, people working in slaughterhouses, janitors, cooks, waitstaff... While I think he's pretty obviously speaking to an audience of office workers, I'll point out that there's a significant difference between cooking or building something a thousand times per day and shipping it out versus seeing the o…

No true Scotsman fallacy. Just because a cook does something multiple times a day doesn’t mean he or she can’t find pleasure in making each meal as high quality as possible.

No true Scotsman fallacy

Absolutely false.

Just because a cook does something multiple times a day doesn’t mean...

Strawman. Regardless, I can assure you that most food service work does not meet some Jiro Dreams of Sushi ideal.

Re: Leaving the Physical World

#93

Post by carlosjobim »

akudha wrote: post #23
jdw64 wrote: post #3

Reading this essay brought tears to my eyes. To me, the physical world is a realm permitted only to those with wealth. The author beautifully romanticizes the evaporation of tangible labor, but the physical labor I actually experienced meant unpaid, stolen wages. It meant working through the night, dozing off on the early morning subway until the very last stop, and enduring endless contempt, humiliation, and the tox…

My guess (and hope) is that next generations will find more meaning in physical labor, communal living etc, partly out of necessity (what young person can afford to buy even a small, simple home these days?) but mostly because they seem to understand that we've screwed the environment enough at this point and the novelty with things like social media is beginning to wear off. As much as kids are glued to their iPads,…

Sounds like you want a stable of young slaves to serve you.

Re: Leaving the Physical World

#94

Post by addaon »

whall6 wrote: post #89
snozolli wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the majority of the workforce doing, then? People working in fast food, welders, plumbers, carpenters, laborers, people working in slaughterhouses, janitors, cooks, waitstaff... While I think he's pretty obviously speaking to an audience of office workers, I'll point out that there's a significant difference between cooking or building something a thousand times per day and shipping it out versus seeing the o…

No true Scotsman fallacy. Just because a cook does something multiple times a day doesn’t mean he or she can’t find pleasure in making each meal as high quality as possible.

That's not a real "no true Scotsman" fallacy. A real "no true Scotsman" fallacy rejects a counter-example, this was a strawman.

Re: Leaving the Physical World

#95

Post by Jimidesuu »

You just made me realize once again how huge this world is...

The world we live in has multiple perspective and to find it here on HN is actually a way for me to understand that life doesn't just revolve to what's going on around me and I felt that through your words and experience,

At the end of the day, we all live and I believe that's how peace of mind comes in when you stop and take a look first at everything

Re: Leaving the Physical World

#96

Post by hirvi74 »

cestith wrote: post #80
hirvi74 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I quit programming to make candles for years, then apartment maintenance, now in the trades. I make 1/3 what I was making doing digital work, and I’d take a pay cut before returning. This honestly brings me hope in a sort of fantasy way. I want to do this, but I do not have the courage to do it. > The reasons I had for leaving were manifold, but the big two were wanting to quit Adderall This hits even harder for me…

There’s a very powerful question to be asked when one hears about someone wanting to quit Adderall. Are you on it because you need it for who you are, or are you on it because you need it to meet the expectations of your employer?

To answer your question, both.

Who I am is functionally disordered based on the societal expectations of how people should behave. Employer expectations of behavior are often harsher than societal expectations in some ways.

It's like what Franz Kafka said, "I was ashamed of myself when I realized life was a masquerade party, and I attended with my real face."

I was eventually given a mask to cover up who I am, and I have worn it for far too long. The rat race with no cheese at the end, the 'professionalism,' the 'career development', and all the theatrical and ceremonial bullshit. Setting myself on fire to keep others warm. Killing myself from the inside out with a poison to please others.

I am just so sick of it all. And most importantly, I am sick of pretending that I am not.

Re: Leaving the Physical World

#98

Post by suncemoje »

jdw64 wrote: post #3

Reading this essay brought tears to my eyes. To me, the physical world is a realm permitted only to those with wealth. The author beautifully romanticizes the evaporation of tangible labor, but the physical labor I actually experienced meant unpaid, stolen wages. It meant working through the night, dozing off on the early morning subway until the very last stop, and enduring endless contempt, humiliation, and the tox…

> „To enter the open-source world, someone from the periphery must […] master programming languages that are inherently far more difficult to learn if your native tongue is not English.“

Liberatingly, this is not true anymore for most of programming. The “difficulty” of getting from idea to product is collapsing fast, benefitting anyone who wants to build something (that people want).

Re: Leaving the Physical World

#99

Post by suncemoje »

justonceokay wrote: post #29
jdw64 wrote: post #3

Reading this essay brought tears to my eyes. To me, the physical world is a realm permitted only to those with wealth. The author beautifully romanticizes the evaporation of tangible labor, but the physical labor I actually experienced meant unpaid, stolen wages. It meant working through the night, dozing off on the early morning subway until the very last stop, and enduring endless contempt, humiliation, and the tox…

You don’t have to be privileged to live in the physical world. I quit programming to make candles for years, then apartment maintenance, now in the trades. I make 1/3 what I was making doing digital work, and I’d take a pay cut before returning. The reasons I had for leaving were manifold, but the big two were wanting to quit Adderall and having read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. It’s a hard road to live…

What from the book inspired you?

Re: Leaving the Physical World

#100

Post by justonceokay »

suncemoje wrote: post #99
justonceokay wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t have to be privileged to live in the physical world. I quit programming to make candles for years, then apartment maintenance, now in the trades. I make 1/3 what I was making doing digital work, and I’d take a pay cut before returning. The reasons I had for leaving were manifold, but the big two were wanting to quit Adderall and having read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. It’s a hard road to live…

What from the book inspired you?

One of the main arguments in the book is that in history the sophists get a very bad shake. The common take is that Socrates beat the rhetoriticians, and science wins out over the humanities.

The authors point though is that “quality” can never be a scientifically found thing. Yet it completely dominates our real experience. Even an amoeba has a sense of quality, in that if you drop alcohol in the Petri dish it will expend all of its effort to get away. Humans have a more complicated and diverse sense of quality. We like rain and sunsets and crackling fire and dogs and right angles and clean sheets.

To me the book is an argument for caring deeply about your own sense of quality. To listen intently to that subconscious and illogical part of you that screams “this is good, that is bad”. All of our intelligence and smarts should be used to better align ourselves with what our body knows is good and bad, not the other way around.

For me, to operationalize this meant becoming sober, working with my hands in the physical world to solve real problems, pursuing/allowing my gay feelings, and trying as hard as I can to take everything in life with grace and humor.

10 years ago I used to be the worst kind of pedantic know-it-all asexual druggie who spent all day inside programming useless things and playing video games. I wasn’t pursuing quality. I was pursuing the comfort of never having to leave my tiny existence. Now I’m doing something else.

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