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First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

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Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#91

Post by lukan »

t43562 wrote: post #87
Towaway69 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineering doesn't seem complex because there are centuries of learnings behind it. Those learnings become rules and suddenly it appears "simple" because no one debates whether to use wood or concrete when building an undersea tunnel!

....however that really is a kind of simplicity. Your training is relevant throughout your career. In software that is much less so. I think Comsci is a worthwhile degree but mine was really only a starting point.

I think a engineering degree is pretty much the same, though. You won't let someone fresh out of university design a new bridge.

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#92

Post by lukan »

msandford wrote: post #62
lukan wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed to that, but they are right with stating, that digging up so much ocean soil in a direct line might disrupt entire maritime ecosystems.

The tunnel will very likely be less disruptive to marine animals than ferry boats. During the construction yes it will be worse but 10 years after? The ecosystem will have forgotten the disruption and will have gained additional peace from reduced/eliminated ferries.

Ferries do not mess up the ground and the riffs which is where most sea life is to be found. Big ships are only a problem to sea life if they dump their old oil there, their anchors ... or well, trawling (which is forbidden there for a reason).

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#93

Post by mrlonglong »

dasKrokodil wrote: post #73
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #67

This is very exciting if you live in the Copenhagen–Malmö area. Currently it takes 5 hours from Copenhagen to Hamburg, and 8 hours if you want to get to Berlin. With this tunnel done, I believe Copenhagen to Hamburg will be less than three hours. Suddenly a weekend trip to Germany by train looks more practical. The train is very nice right now, but you need to set aside a day for travel, in both directions. It's a sh…

> With this tunnel done, I believe Copenhagen to Hamburg will be less than three hours. Even when the tunnel will finally be done, Deutsche Bahn will find creative ways to make it take five hours again.

There's even a website gambling on how late DB trains will be.

https://bahn.bet/

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#94

Post by readthenotes1 »

Melkman wrote: post #6
readthenotes1 wrote: post #3

52.6B krone for 18 km 8B USD for 11 miles CACHSR IOS 36B USD for 171 miles. The Merced to Bakersfield IOS looks like a bargain on a distance basis. I have no idea of the carbon offset or passenger time saving versus flying of course

They are not really comparable are they. One is a rail connection over land and the other is a 130ft deep tunnel for rail and road traffic.

Of course they are comparable. They are both mechanisms to get people from point A to point B

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#95

Post by rbanffy »

mprev wrote: post #76
rbanffy wrote: post #74

And here I am measuring the distance from Dublin (Ireland) to Holyhead - would be ok for fast rail, but then it's between 3 to 5 hours of rail to London. I wonder if Ryanair pays rail companies to offer poor service.

Isn't the issue the depth of the Irish Sea at the point where Scotland and Ireland are closest? It gets to around 1,000 ft deep there (roughly 5x where the Channel Tunnel goes) and has a bunch of unexploded WW2 bombs dumped there, too. Then Dublin to Holyhead is, what, 70 miles? That's twice as long as the Seikan tunnel, which I think is the world's longest under sea tunnel.

I think it isn’t that deep - last time I checked it was reasonable, but you make a good point about unexploded ordnance. Building it would be a thrill.

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#96

Post by usrusr »

logifail wrote: post #26
usrusr wrote: post #23

Can anyone from the region comment on the status of plans for the landside linkup on the German side? Last time it made the press it was because the project was at risk of seeing the Danish tunnel finished before Germany could tell not even when but if a linkup would ever make it across bureaucratic hurdles. Almost like a Darien Gap made exclusively of red tape.

You mean like the Brenner Base [Rail] Tunnel which will connect Austria and Italy? Germany seems to be stuck at the "studying" stage before they improve the relevant rail links on the Grafing–Rosenheim–Kufstein route. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenner_Base_Tunnel

When the iron curtain fell, there were big plans and a formal contract about modernizing the rail link between Prague and Nuremberg (a hugely important connection on the days of Charles IV). The Czech side eventually stopped electrifying their parts when they realized nothing happened on the other side of the border. These days, Deutsche Bahn is operating a _bus connection_ between the cities. It seems like they are solely focused on beating imaginary Autobahn times between a selected set of major German cities, and consider everything else a nuisance...

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#97

Post by dredmorbius »

rbanffy wrote: post #74

And here I am measuring the distance from Dublin (Ireland) to Holyhead - would be ok for fast rail, but then it's between 3 to 5 hours of rail to London. I wonder if Ryanair pays rail companies to offer poor service.

Such proposals exist under the rubric "Irish Sea Bridge": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Sea_Bridge>.

The four leading crossing options would be the Kintyre (most northerly), Galloway, Irish Mail, and Tuskar (most southerly) routes.

Irish Sea depths (notably Beaufort's Dyke), and unexploded and chemical ordinance, are principle concerns.

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#98

Post by bobthepanda »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #67

This is very exciting if you live in the Copenhagen–Malmö area. Currently it takes 5 hours from Copenhagen to Hamburg, and 8 hours if you want to get to Berlin. With this tunnel done, I believe Copenhagen to Hamburg will be less than three hours. Suddenly a weekend trip to Germany by train looks more practical. The train is very nice right now, but you need to set aside a day for travel, in both directions. It's a sh…

To be fair, a future reasonable upgrade might be a high or higher speed line from Lübeck to the Hamburg-Berlin high speed line.

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#99

Post by gmueckl »

lukan wrote: post #92
msandford wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tunnel will very likely be less disruptive to marine animals than ferry boats. During the construction yes it will be worse but 10 years after? The ecosystem will have forgotten the disruption and will have gained additional peace from reduced/eliminated ferries.

Ferries do not mess up the ground and the riffs which is where most sea life is to be found. Big ships are only a problem to sea life if they dump their old oil there, their anchors ... or well, trawling (which is forbidden there for a reason).

Ships also produce noise. At least marine mammals are affected by ship noises.

Re: First tunnel element of the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel immersed

#100

Post by rbanffy »

dredmorbius wrote: post #97
rbanffy wrote: post #74

And here I am measuring the distance from Dublin (Ireland) to Holyhead - would be ok for fast rail, but then it's between 3 to 5 hours of rail to London. I wonder if Ryanair pays rail companies to offer poor service.

Such proposals exist under the rubric "Irish Sea Bridge": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Sea_Bridge >. The four leading crossing options would be the Kintyre (most northerly), Galloway, Irish Mail, and Tuskar (most southerly) routes. Irish Sea depths (notably Beaufort's Dyke), and unexploded and chemical ordinance, are principle concerns.

That’d be awesome. What is the current tallest ship that could damage a bridge? You can count on someone eventually doing that.
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