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Pinocchio is weirder than you remembered

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Re: Pinocchio is weirder than you remembered

#91

Post by aardvarkr »

47282847 wrote: post #86
ffsm8 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that the other way around? People back then had more contact with the darker reality we live in - hence it was more relatable. Current generation of people in the west have been completely sheltered and protected by the establishment for all their life and have completely forgotten that isn't something natural. With every generation since WW2 this has gotten more pronounced, and at this point people unironicall…

Is that really true? I find that more and more TV series have a lot more gruesome elements in there nowadays, also ones aimed at not-only-adults like Stranger Things for example. And horror movies moved from being a niche thing to Hollywood.

If stranger things ended with everyone dead and no happy ending then sure but no, everything is fair and the heroes always win. Horror has always been mainstream fyi, it’s not a recent invention

Re: Pinocchio is weirder than you remembered

#92

Post by picsao »

michaelscott wrote: post #67
arjie wrote: post #15

When I was a child in India, the fairy tale books that you could get easily were a bunch of Eastern European ones: Russian, Karelian, that sort of thing. And they were full of crazy stuff, man. The cossacks were constantly getting their heads cut off and this and that. I went back to India a year ago, and one of the things I made sure to bring back were my copies of those books (and the Journey to the West translatio…

I had a partner who was a teacher in very rough areas; the school principal was routinely called by the local gang leader to let school out early because rival gangs planned to have a shootout in the afternoon. Kids there were abused in more ways than I want to remember or recount, babies were sometimes found in dumpsters, and the whole thing had this constantly oppressive and hopeless atmosphere. My partner did her…

[dead]

Re: Pinocchio is weirder than you remembered

#93

Post by gourlaysama »

Joker_vD wrote: post #79
junto wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are cultural differences here though. Brüder Grimm aren’t quite as toned down in Germany as we see in US stories being Disney-fied. The U.S. was born out of Puritanism. That prudishness and absolutism continues to echo through into its modern culture. Most people don’t even realize it does.

> The U.S. was born out of Puritanism. That reminds me: apparently, the Puritans have actually managed to ban the celebration of Christmas and other church feasts in the Britain during the English Interregnum (An Ordinance for Abolishing of Festivals, June 1647): Forasmuch as the Feasts of the Nativity of Christ, Easter and Whitsuntide, and other Festivals commonly called Holy-Dayes, have been heretofore superstitiou…

> Talk about the war on Christmas!

Not just a war on Christmas, but an actual war too: this led to a whole bunch of Christmas riots throughout England, including Canterbury's famous "Plum pudding Riots", where rioters ended up sacking the mayor's house and taking over control of the city for weeks. The whole of Kent ended up revolting after the rioters' trial, essentially starting the Second English Civil War.

Re: Pinocchio is weirder than you remembered

#94

Post by loudmax »

arjie wrote: post #15

When I was a child in India, the fairy tale books that you could get easily were a bunch of Eastern European ones: Russian, Karelian, that sort of thing. And they were full of crazy stuff, man. The cossacks were constantly getting their heads cut off and this and that. I went back to India a year ago, and one of the things I made sure to bring back were my copies of those books (and the Journey to the West translatio…

Author Philip Pullman published a version of the Grimm fairy tales in 2012. These stories are intended for a modern audience, but in my opinion, Pullman does a good job of preserving a fair amount of the original scariness and general weirdness. Definitely rougher than the Disney versions of these stories. I recommend this volume to anyone with small children.

Re: Pinocchio is weirder than you remembered

#95

Post by shermantanktop »

andai wrote: post #22
shermantanktop wrote: post #10

The children’s literature that was written prior to about 1900 is generally darker, more violent and threatening than what came after. Struwwelpeter anyone? We decided at some point that these themes were no longer fit for children despite generations having been raised with it. That’s probably the Victorian era, when childhood is said to have been “invented.”

>That’s probably the Victorian era, when childhood is said to have been “invented.” Could you elaborate on this?

Some links. I think of “Alice In Wonderland” as an example.

https://victorianweb.org/genre/autobiography/walther.html

https://www.nts.org.uk/stories/the-invention-of-childhood

https://www.vassar.edu/specialcollections/exhibit-highlights...

Re: Pinocchio is weirder than you remembered

#96

Post by sillywabbit »

aardvarkr wrote: post #91
47282847 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really true? I find that more and more TV series have a lot more gruesome elements in there nowadays, also ones aimed at not-only-adults like Stranger Things for example. And horror movies moved from being a niche thing to Hollywood.

If stranger things ended with everyone dead and no happy ending then sure but no, everything is fair and the heroes always win. Horror has always been mainstream fyi, it’s not a recent invention

What? Eddie and Alexei were the heroes of that story, and they got screwed.

Re: Pinocchio is weirder than you remembered

#97

Post by virtualritz »

On that note, there is a recent live action Pinocchio film [1] that is very faithful to the book and absolutely magical; with Roberto Benigni playing Geppetto no less.

It has some highly entertaining scathing reviews on Amazon of not being family-safe and faithful to "the original" from people who think Pinocchio was invented by Disney and use the animated movie as a reference for their critiques.

As hilarious as it is sad.

Remembering my dad reading us Pinocchio as a kids and visiting Tuscany around that time, too, with my family, this movie is as close to what I can remember imagining it, as it gets.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rIcXgMx7hU

Re: Pinocchio is weirder than you remembered

#98

Post by GJim »

golemotron wrote: post #71
arjie wrote: post #15

When I was a child in India, the fairy tale books that you could get easily were a bunch of Eastern European ones: Russian, Karelian, that sort of thing. And they were full of crazy stuff, man. The cossacks were constantly getting their heads cut off and this and that. I went back to India a year ago, and one of the things I made sure to bring back were my copies of those books (and the Journey to the West translatio…

Those old stories may have been full of crazy stuff, but look at children's programming over the past 30 years. SpongeBob characters, under the ocean, jumping off a diving board into a pool, again, under the ocean. It isn't violent, but it is crazy. I think that children's authors primarily amuse themselves knowing that it will pass right over the heads of their target audience. It sure seems true of Collodi.

> look at children's programming over the past 30 years. SpongeBob characters, under the ocean, jumping off a diving board into a pool, again, under the ocean. It isn't violent, but it is crazy.

A frog in love with a pig?

> I think that children's authors primarily amuse themselves knowing that it will pass right over the heads of their target audience.

I take it Sir is familiar with the British tradition of pantomime? (Where no entendre will be left undoubled).

Re: Pinocchio is weirder than you remembered

#99

Post by the_af »

arjie wrote: post #15

When I was a child in India, the fairy tale books that you could get easily were a bunch of Eastern European ones: Russian, Karelian, that sort of thing. And they were full of crazy stuff, man. The cossacks were constantly getting their heads cut off and this and that. I went back to India a year ago, and one of the things I made sure to bring back were my copies of those books (and the Journey to the West translatio…

> In the old folk tales, things just happen. Fairness isn't guaranteed; and sometimes a guy makes a deal and gets eaten anyway; and sometimes someone dies for no reason.

Do you mean in Indian and Eastern European folk tales? Interesting! I should read more of those (I'm familiar with the usual suspects, but I'm sure I'm missing lots).

If I'm ever magically transported to a classic folk tale like Grimm's, this is my survival guide. Not fool-proof, but good enough:

- Always be kind to strangers, especially old men and women.

- Do not make promises lightly, but when you do, always honor them. Especially if you promised something to an animal that can, bizarrely, speak.

- Do not accept gifts from strangers, and do not follow strange old ladies into their homes.

- Always share what you have with others, e.g. food. If a stranger asks for a favor, always say yes and don't ask for anything in return.

- Do not go into the locked room / open the box they told you not to. You'll live a possibly ignorant but long and happy life.

- Do not mock anyone who looks strange or hideous.

- Always respect your parents and do not lie to them.

- (This is the hardest one) Always be the youngest son / daughter.

Re: Pinocchio is weirder than you remembered

#100

Post by gchamonlive »

yowo wrote: post #75

> This is, again, a children's book. Children are capable of understanding cruelty, pain, death, suffering, in young age, overprotectiveness is why we have many >20 y/o people who can't speak for themselves and are overly shy.

> overprotectiveness is why we have many >20 y/o people who can't speak for themselves and are overly shy.

Is this even true or is it just your personal impression?

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