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Heat pump sales rise across Europe

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Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#91

Post by ProllyInfamous »

ejoebstl wrote: post #24

In DACH, there's not really an alternative for many homes. Heat pumps are by now cheaper, more efficient, more versatile and definitely greener than other means of heating. If you get one, just make sure to get the dimensioning right. They are WAY more complex to plan, install and maintain than traditional heating.

>[heatpump waterheaters are] WAY more complex to plan, install

Only if you place them within https://i.imgur.com/4wCez9u.jpeg> this specific design draws from both bath and bedroom [dual 6" inlets], exhausts into kitchen [single 8" outlet] | utility closet is only 5ft x 4ft (~20sqft)

As an added bonus it'll passively dehumidify/cool whereever it drafts to/from.

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#92

Post by crazygringo »

CivBase wrote: post #84
ejoebstl wrote: post #24

In DACH, there's not really an alternative for many homes. Heat pumps are by now cheaper, more efficient, more versatile and definitely greener than other means of heating. If you get one, just make sure to get the dimensioning right. They are WAY more complex to plan, install and maintain than traditional heating.

> They are WAY more complex to plan, install and maintain than traditional heating. I'm curious what about them would be more difficult to plan, install, and maintain. Obviously there are many things to consider when retrofitting a building with a central gas furnace... but otherwise why would they be much more complicated than an air conditioning system?

I've had a lot of mold problems with mine. Because they have to be strong enough to handle the coldest winter days, which makes them way overpowered when running air-conditioning in the summer, which means that when you run them in energy efficient mode, they are actively cooling only a small fraction of the time and all of the condensed water just sits there growing mold all day long. It also leaves the home far more humid than usual because it's not removing nearly as much humidity from the air as a less powerful unit running constantly would.

This isn't a problem with regular air-conditioning that is provisioned correctly for the size of your home, because it winds up actively running a lot of the time so the water is draining as new humidity condenses.

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#93

Post by gucci-on-fleek »

ProllyInfamous wrote: post #43

For anybody in TVA's electricity networks (mostly: Tennessee): they offer an annual promotion to single-family homeowners only to purchase an $1800 AO heatpump waterheater for only $250 . Maths: 85% discount on fancy new waterheater, which also dehumidifies and cools your house (passive result of heatpump). TVA usually offers this promotion between Thanksgiving and NYE. You can order online from HomeDepot, or walk in…

> Whatever you do: do NOT use a water softener before the tank.

I'm curious why not? I can't immediately think of a reason why that would be bad, but I admittedly know hardly anything about plumbing.

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#94

Post by rokkamokka »

ericd wrote: post #89

As a PSA, mini splits are pretty easy to self-install, and it can save you a bundle, even when buying all the equipment new. Lots of youtube videos on how to do it, though I'd add that most of them show using a manifold with analog gauges to do a vacuum test. You should really get a digital micron gauge and pull a deep vacuum.

Also, make sure that's actually legal in your jurisdiction. It is not legal here (primarily due to handling of coolant)

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#95

Post by ProllyInfamous »

gucci-on-fleek wrote: post #93
ProllyInfamous wrote: post #43

For anybody in TVA's electricity networks (mostly: Tennessee): they offer an annual promotion to single-family homeowners only to purchase an $1800 AO heatpump waterheater for only $250 . Maths: 85% discount on fancy new waterheater, which also dehumidifies and cools your house (passive result of heatpump). TVA usually offers this promotion between Thanksgiving and NYE. You can order online from HomeDepot, or walk in…

> Whatever you do: do NOT use a water softener before the tank. I'm curious why not? I can't immediately think of a reason why that would be bad, but I admittedly know hardly anything about plumbing.

Corrosion will destroy the tank's fittings/liner. Quickly.

So quickly, in fact, that it is mentioned multiple times in the installation manual to not do lots of things (no salt-fed softeners in bold/red/all-the-things).

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#96

Post by IshKebab »

PanMan wrote: post #41
pandora-health wrote: post #38

I run daily comparisons between a gas boiler and a heat pump in the UK. Given that gas is cheaper than electricity, a well-installed and well-controlled gas boiler can still be cheaper to run. Heat pump running costs can drop drastically when combined with solar and battery storage, but that requires a much greater upfront investment. https://x.com/AO7186252340513 https://bsky.app/profile/showpiece.bsky.social

I'm no expert on UK energy pricing, but the main difference between a boiler and heat pump is that heatpump can be, eg "500% efficient" - a COP of 5. So even if a KWH of energy is 2x the price for electricity a heatpump often comes out ahead.

Yeah a COP of 5 is very good. 3 is much more typical.

And OP is right. When I've looked into it you aren't going to save any money going to a heat pump; in fact it will likely increase costs slightly.

So it really only makes sense to do when you need a new boiler. If you don't, it makes way more sense to get solar because that's also good for the environment but actually saves you money.

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#97

Post by ethansinjin »

ProllyInfamous wrote: post #43

For anybody in TVA's electricity networks (mostly: Tennessee): they offer an annual promotion to single-family homeowners only to purchase an $1800 AO heatpump waterheater for only $250 . Maths: 85% discount on fancy new waterheater, which also dehumidifies and cools your house (passive result of heatpump). TVA usually offers this promotion between Thanksgiving and NYE. You can order online from HomeDepot, or walk in…

Important caveat:

> You must swap out an old electric unit; switching from gas to electric doesn't qualify.[0]

That’s a bummer; totally would have done this otherwise

[0] https://www.hotwater.com/water-heater-rebates/tva-heat-pump-...

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#99

Post by tass »

ProllyInfamous wrote: post #95
gucci-on-fleek wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whatever you do: do NOT use a water softener before the tank. I'm curious why not? I can't immediately think of a reason why that would be bad, but I admittedly know hardly anything about plumbing.

Corrosion will destroy the tank's fittings/liner. Quickly. So quickly, in fact, that it is mentioned multiple times in the installation manual to not do lots of things (no salt-fed softeners in bold/red/all-the-things).

Possibly obvious point, water softeners add salt to the water.

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#100

Post by ProllyInfamous »

tass wrote: post #99
ProllyInfamous wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corrosion will destroy the tank's fittings/liner. Quickly. So quickly, in fact, that it is mentioned multiple times in the installation manual to not do lots of things (no salt-fed softeners in bold/red/all-the-things).

Possibly obvious point, water softeners add salt to the water.

Correct. This is the reason.
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