Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Let's talk about LLMs

b-list.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 201 posts

Re: Let's talk about LLMs

#91

Post by gerdesj »

mfro wrote: post #4

I think you're misunderstanding the paradigm shift completely -- AI does not just generate code N(x) more quickly. It thinks N(x) faster, it researches N(x) faster, it tests N(x) faster. There are hundreds of tasks that you'll find engineers are offloading to AI every day. The major hurdle right now is actually pivoting LLMs from just generating code: integrating those tasks into workflows. This is why tool-use and a…

"paradigm shift"

A paradigm shift is an earth shattering, very important change - a complete change in thinking etc. LLMs are not that. They are simply some pretty new tools. Nice tools but they will whip off your metaphorical thumb just as quickly as a miss-used table saw.

You'll note that you mention "engineers are offloading": that's not a paradigm shift. That's a bunch of engineers discovering a better slide rule.

I'm old enough to remember moving on from slide rules (I still have mine) through calculators (ditto) to using fag packets and napkins for their real intended purpose.

The drill-driver also took engineering by storm but no-one ever used the term paradigm shift (to be fair, I don't think it was invented at the time and I can't be arsed to look it up).

Re: Let's talk about LLMs

#93

Post by zapataband1 »

jatora wrote: post #78
strange_quark wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What rapid improvement has occurred, because in this six month AI coding fever dream we've been living in, I really haven't seen anything new in awhile, both in terms of new ideas for AI coding or in new consumer products or services. I'll give you the coding harnesses themselves are better because that was a new product category with a lot of low-hanging fruit, but have the models actually improved in a way that isn…

Uninformed opinion of someone who clearly doesnt consistently use AI coding tools, clearly. And why are you limiting it to 6 months? Whats wrong with you?

How many years of real-life, in-production problem solving/coding have you done? That's what I base how informed you are not how much you use your favorite new $100/month token-prediction subscription

Re: Let's talk about LLMs

#94

Post by marcus_holmes »

I was waiting for the "so I tried coding something with an LLM myself, and I found..." paragraph. But apparently the author never did try it, or at least if they did, they didn't write about it.

This is a very academic approach to the subject - read what other people have written about it without ever doing it yourself. Study what someone said about LLM coding 50 years ago, before they were even invented, to see what you think about it.

I would strongly suggest to the author that you just give it a go, and see what you think, without the preconception of other people's opinions.

My experience has been remarkable, and, like others, I'm finding real joy in being able to move past the code to actually design and play with whole systems and architectures.

It gets to the essence of code; which is not about the code, but about the system that code implements. Being able to write code in 3 minutes not 30 minutes does not bog us down in review (the LLM is perfectly capable of reviewing code too). It frees us to explore systems and architectures without worrying about the sunk cost of the existing code, or the effort of changing it.

Re: Let's talk about LLMs

#96

Post by zapataband1 »

ilia-a wrote: post #22

Even without writing code LLMs are a huge help, analyzing code, doing code reviews, documenting code, etc... Even without writing a line of "code" LLM hugely speed up development and take away the annoying/boring work.

I can read and write code why do I need an LLM to produce something I still have to read and test

Re: Let's talk about LLMs

#97

Post by jay_kyburz »

leptons wrote: post #84
kelnos wrote: post #27

>> Within just this group the ratios between best and worst performances averaged about 10:1 on productivity measurements and an amazing 5:1 on program speed and space measurements! > (although I’m personally skeptical of the “10x programmer” concept, the software industry overall does seem to accept it as true) To be fair, this statement from Brooks doesn't entirely match with the "10x programmer" we talk about. My…

There's no such thing as a "10x" programmer, and anyone who uses it doesn't know what they're talking about. 10x relative to what exactly? It's not a statement grounded in any kind of reality.

I've never understood it to be literal, but from my experience there is a big difference between the folks that show up to work on time, jump right into their work, they pay attention in meetings, know code base, and have the ability "lock in" as my kids say. On the other hand you have folks that show up late, spend all day chatting at the water cooler, get distracted with home stuff, comment on hacker news all day, and only manage to squeeze in a few hours of actual work a day.

Re: Let's talk about LLMs

#98

Post by zapataband1 »

mfro wrote: post #4

I think you're misunderstanding the paradigm shift completely -- AI does not just generate code N(x) more quickly. It thinks N(x) faster, it researches N(x) faster, it tests N(x) faster. There are hundreds of tasks that you'll find engineers are offloading to AI every day. The major hurdle right now is actually pivoting LLMs from just generating code: integrating those tasks into workflows. This is why tool-use and a…

I think you are misunderstanding something, AI does not think, it is a token prediction algorithm.

Re: Let's talk about LLMs

#99

Post by aspenmartin »

gerdesj wrote: post #91
mfro wrote: post #4

I think you're misunderstanding the paradigm shift completely -- AI does not just generate code N(x) more quickly. It thinks N(x) faster, it researches N(x) faster, it tests N(x) faster. There are hundreds of tasks that you'll find engineers are offloading to AI every day. The major hurdle right now is actually pivoting LLMs from just generating code: integrating those tasks into workflows. This is why tool-use and a…

"paradigm shift" A paradigm shift is an earth shattering, very important change - a complete change in thinking etc. LLMs are not that. They are simply some pretty new tools. Nice tools but they will whip off your metaphorical thumb just as quickly as a miss-used table saw. You'll note that you mention "engineers are offloading": that's not a paradigm shift. That's a bunch of engineers discovering a better slide rule…

I would argue LLMs are possibly the largest paradigm shift the world has ever seen, and we are only at the beginning. The entire scaffolding and structure of programming is in the process of changing — coding has moved to orchestration and testing and governance of how to manage and productionalize code that has surpassed the capacity of human review.

If this sounds melodramatic it’s likely that it hasn’t fully taken root where you are yet.

I see opinions split on like “it’s just a dirty untrustworthy tool that is making our lives and the world a living hell” and “this is the second coming of Christ”. The reality is that right now we lie on that first part of the spectrum, but I am looking over the hill and seeing 4 horses and they are stampeding this way

Re: Let's talk about LLMs

#100

Post by andai »

On my device the article displayed 5 words per line, so I switched to "Desktop site" in the hamburger menu which made it much more readable.

(Sorry for bikeshedding, but you can't discuss an article if you can't read it.)

Post reply on HN