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Alberta voter list leak is a potential public safety disaster

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Re: Alberta voter list leak is a potential public safety disaster

#91

Post by MichaelBurjack »

thunderfork wrote: post #59
Teever wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression that this was the optional list that you sign up for with the CRA when you file your taxes, is that not the case?

The data sharing between the CRA and Elections Canada is optional, but if you want to vote, you've got to be registered - whether via the CRA or otherwise.

Being on the electors list is optional, is something you can opt-in to (and opt-out of), and is not required in order to vote in Alberta.

There are many reasons an individual may choose to not be on the list (eg. domestic abuse situations).

Re: Alberta voter list leak is a potential public safety disaster

#92

Post by gucci-on-fleek »

thunderfork wrote: post #59
Teever wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression that this was the optional list that you sign up for with the CRA when you file your taxes, is that not the case?

The data sharing between the CRA and Elections Canada is optional, but if you want to vote, you've got to be registered - whether via the CRA or otherwise.

> but if you want to vote, you've got to be registered - whether via the CRA or otherwise

Technically true, but you can register at the polling booth on the day of the election, and there's a checkbox that lets you opt out of saving your data in the database. [0]

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48015977

Re: Alberta voter list leak is a potential public safety disaster

#94

Post by nottorp »

mschuster91 wrote: post #58
tptacek wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pesky First Amendment.

Sending mail to or cold calling voters, okay, that should by all definitions be covered by the First Amendment. Verifying voter rolls, okay, reasonable. But there is no justification for providing voter roll data to the wide public in a way that is machine readable. Or to provide these data to third parties (including political parties, candidates or PACs). Candidates and parties can use USPS Bulk Mail, they do not n…

> cold calling voters

That should be a capital offense if done for political purposes, commercial purposes or any other purposes that are not an emergency :)

Re: Alberta voter list leak is a potential public safety disaster

#95

Post by soco »

MichaelBurjack wrote: post #89
ls612 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that voter registration data is a matter of public record in most (all?) states so the idea that it wouldn’t be a matter of public record north of the border is itself odd to me.

Being on the electors list is optional, is something you can opt-in to (and opt-out of), and is not required in order to vote in Alberta. There are many reasons an individual may choose to not be on the list (eg. domestic abuse situations).

For us outsiders, can you shortly explain what's the practical point of such a list then? Some historical vestige maybe?

Re: Alberta voter list leak is a potential public safety disaster

#96

Post by xedrac »

sbarre wrote: post #75
bluefirebrand wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst case is if that vote passes

It can't (or if it did, it wouldn't matter). This has been debated to death already, it's effectively impossible for Alberta to separate from Canada, at least with our current constitutional and legal frameworks. https://policyoptions.irpp.org/2026/02/alberta-separation-il...

I wouldn't be so certain about that. What happens when the vote passes, and the USA formally recognizes an independent Alberta?

Re: Alberta voter list leak is a potential public safety disaster

#97

Post by sbarre »

xedrac wrote: post #96
sbarre wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can't (or if it did, it wouldn't matter). This has been debated to death already, it's effectively impossible for Alberta to separate from Canada, at least with our current constitutional and legal frameworks. https://policyoptions.irpp.org/2026/02/alberta-separation-il...

I wouldn't be so certain about that. What happens when the vote passes, and the USA formally recognizes an independent Alberta?

Well, since we don't live in "movie world", nothing would happen?

We're already used to the US' dumbass leadership making 51st state threats, and since we all know TACO, it would just be more "idiot cries wolf" noise.

There are 4.2M people in Alberta and the separatist movement has struggled to get 300k signatures.

How do you think the actual referendum would go?

Plus a referendum is not a legally binding thing that would unconditionally force separation.

Even if more than 50% voted yes, it would simply require the government to formally explore the possibility of separating. At which point they would conclude, like others already have, that it's not legally possible to separate without changing existing laws (which could also happen but would be a much longer and more complicated road).

If you want a good primer on why it's basically impossible, this video might help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OT2IQSoVEs

Re: Alberta voter list leak is a potential public safety disaster

#98

Post by xedrac »

sbarre wrote: post #97
xedrac wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be so certain about that. What happens when the vote passes, and the USA formally recognizes an independent Alberta?

Well, since we don't live in "movie world", nothing would happen? We're already used to the US' dumbass leadership making 51st state threats, and since we all know TACO, it would just be more "idiot cries wolf" noise. There are 4.2M people in Alberta and the separatist movement has struggled to get 300k signatures. How do you think the actual referendum would go? Plus a referendum is not a legally binding thing that…

It wasn't legal for the US to separate from England either. Just hypothetically, say Alberta ultimately decides to separate and proclaims their independence. They stop paying into the federal system and set up their own federal government. Ottawa says they will intervene with military force, but the US protects the separatists.

This is not a likely scenario, but it's not at all impossible either.

Re: Alberta voter list leak is a potential public safety disaster

#99

Post by gojomo »

mschuster91 wrote: post #83
gojomo wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Useful comparison, but to my point: is that sufficient to detect fake entries created by incumbent insiders? Also: has that in-person mechanism ever been used by stalkers/abusers to find their hiding targets?

> Useful comparison, but to my point: is that sufficient to detect fake entries created by incumbent insiders? Scandals regarding voter roll fraud are extremely rare. I can only think of one scandal from 2014 where a farmer was alleged to have seasonal laborers register and vote for the party of his wife by mail [1]. In the end, the case against the farmer ended up being tossed on insufficient evidence. > Also: has t…

Thanks but I don't understand how either of your replies are responsive to my questions.

The number of reported/memorable fraud scandals is not itself a reliable indicator of whether the proper controls are in place. It is only an accurate estimate of the actual fraud if you already assume the controls are working.

I don't know what you mean about "contesting" entries. The original report implied people could review the voter rolls - not just their own entry, or some small number of intentional challenges - by going in person. If they can review the names & addresses of all voters, stalkers/abusers could leverage that. If instead they can only "contest" certain entries by name after specific articulable suspicion, that's a much narrower kind of review, which again seems to offer none of the protection against insider fraud that exists in more transparent democracies.

Re: Alberta voter list leak is a potential public safety disaster

#100

Post by sbarre »

xedrac wrote: post #98
sbarre wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, since we don't live in "movie world", nothing would happen? We're already used to the US' dumbass leadership making 51st state threats, and since we all know TACO, it would just be more "idiot cries wolf" noise. There are 4.2M people in Alberta and the separatist movement has struggled to get 300k signatures. How do you think the actual referendum would go? Plus a referendum is not a legally binding thing that…

It wasn't legal for the US to separate from England either. Just hypothetically, say Alberta ultimately decides to separate and proclaims their independence. They stop paying into the federal system and set up their own federal government. Ottawa says they will intervene with military force, but the US protects the separatists. This is not a likely scenario, but it's not at all impossible either.

Like I said, we don't live in "movie world".
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