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Uber wants to turn its drivers into a sensor grid for self-driving companies

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Re: Uber wants to turn its drivers into a sensor grid for self-driving companies

#91

Post by ianm218 »

bobro wrote: post #88
ra7 wrote: post #32

> The insight driving the program, Naga said, is that the limiting factor for AV development is no longer the underlying technology. “The bottleneck is data,” he said. “[Companies like Waymo] need to go around and collect the data, collect different scenarios. You may be able to say: in San Francisco, ‘At this school intersection, I want some data at this time of day so I can train my models.’ The problem for all the…

I find the idea of learning from simulated data so unintuitive. How can you radically improve your model with just your model? I take it people do it, so it must work, but i just don’t understand it at all.

Well there's a world simulation model and then the driving model.

You can imagine improving i.e. a specialized math model (problem in, theorem out) with a normal LLM that knows lots of problems and theorems generally.

Re: Uber wants to turn its drivers into a sensor grid for self-driving companies

#92

Post by nradov »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #34
jcgrillo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been to san francisco before, it doesn't even snow there

> it doesn't even snow there My Subaru can lane keep in a Wyoming blizzard. There isn’t some unsolved technical problem with snow for any system with radar, i.e. anyone who isn’t Tesla. Keep in mind that like a fifth of Americans and half of humans live somewhere is rarely or never snows.

[dead]

Re: Uber wants to turn its drivers into a sensor grid for self-driving companies

#93

Post by mrweasel »

le-mark wrote: post #82
zitterbewegung wrote: post #78

Isn’t this a pivot I always thought Uber wanted to automate their whole fleet instead of having to pay people ?

This exactly; self driving was a large part of their valuation iirc.

The part I don't fully understand is what leverage this gives Uber over anyone else? Uber doesn't have the fleet management, mechanics, cleaners or even storage facilities. They do have the most used taxi app, but that seems like a very small edge.

There's nothing stopping the car makers from running their own taxi service and they already have networks of mechanics and cleaner as well as some level of storage. They'd need to scale up, but they don't need to start from zero.

Ubers success is in large part build on not having to own AND MANAGE their cars. With self-driving cars that advantage disappears, unless they're gaming that "drivers" will buy the cars and lease it to them.

Re: Uber wants to turn its drivers into a sensor grid for self-driving companies

#94

Post by 33MHz-i486 »

I remember Travis Kalanik spouting the talking points about self-driving in 2017, that after Waymo, Tesla had the advantage because they had the best data, that they were going to crack self-driving soon. Then I remember Dara scuttling Uber’s entire self driving division in 2019.

Self-driving is possible but it requires a massive sustained investment in custom hardware on the car, in real and simulation testing, in painstaking software developlment covering tens of thousands of scenarios, realtime remote control failsafes, fleet management capabilities in every city. Waymo is the only company that comes close to the right approach. All these other Elons, GM, Uber CEOs are just jangling shiny objects in front of investors. A moonshot on the financial model for what are otherwise mature stagnant businesses.

Re: Uber wants to turn its drivers into a sensor grid for self-driving companies

#95

Post by MagicMoonlight »

simmonmt wrote: post #58
ra7 wrote: post #32

> The insight driving the program, Naga said, is that the limiting factor for AV development is no longer the underlying technology. “The bottleneck is data,” he said. “[Companies like Waymo] need to go around and collect the data, collect different scenarios. You may be able to say: in San Francisco, ‘At this school intersection, I want some data at this time of day so I can train my models.’ The problem for all the…

> When they want data about a school intersection in SF at a certain time of day, they just... synthetically generate it and simulate I think it's more about detecting changes to the world. You need boots on the ground, so to speak, to see that new speed limit sign or the new lane paint. The Waymo vehicle can no doubt react to changes in the world when it encounters them, relaying them back to the mothership, but it'…

That’s dumb then. It shows it’s just brute force rather than AI.

A human doesn’t need to be shown every single road that exists in order to drive.

Re: Uber wants to turn its drivers into a sensor grid for self-driving companies

#96

Post by paganel »

delfinom wrote: post #81
simmonmt wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When they want data about a school intersection in SF at a certain time of day, they just... synthetically generate it and simulate I think it's more about detecting changes to the world. You need boots on the ground, so to speak, to see that new speed limit sign or the new lane paint. The Waymo vehicle can no doubt react to changes in the world when it encounters them, relaying them back to the mothership, but it'…

>You need boots on the ground, so to speak, to see that new speed limit sign or the new lane paint. It'll shock you to know that you can simply get this from governments, some even provide this in API form

> or the new lane paint.

I'd be surprised if this is a thing outside the biggest US (and European, for that matter) cities, judging from Google StreetView there are lots of streets in US cities/towns with almost no paint lines at all.

Re: Uber wants to turn its drivers into a sensor grid for self-driving companies

#97

Post by dmd »

delfinom wrote: post #81
simmonmt wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When they want data about a school intersection in SF at a certain time of day, they just... synthetically generate it and simulate I think it's more about detecting changes to the world. You need boots on the ground, so to speak, to see that new speed limit sign or the new lane paint. The Waymo vehicle can no doubt react to changes in the world when it encounters them, relaying them back to the mothership, but it'…

>You need boots on the ground, so to speak, to see that new speed limit sign or the new lane paint. It'll shock you to know that you can simply get this from governments, some even provide this in API form

It probably won't shock you to know that those sources of data can be months to even years delayed from what's actually out in the world.

Re: Uber wants to turn its drivers into a sensor grid for self-driving companies

#98

Post by Sardtok »

ra7 wrote: post #32

> The insight driving the program, Naga said, is that the limiting factor for AV development is no longer the underlying technology. “The bottleneck is data,” he said. “[Companies like Waymo] need to go around and collect the data, collect different scenarios. You may be able to say: in San Francisco, ‘At this school intersection, I want some data at this time of day so I can train my models.’ The problem for all the…

The biggest difference, is Uber has vehicles around the world. So there's more data from countries with different rules from the US. Signage is definitely different between the US and Europe.

Re: Uber wants to turn its drivers into a sensor grid for self-driving companies

#99

Post by AndrewKemendo »

ninjagoo wrote: post #79
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of people have absolutely no foundational belief for their actions it is simply how do I get more money sex property attention etc… There are no monks door dashing

> The majority of people have absolutely no foundational belief for their actions The majority of people have absolutely no choice for their actions FTFY Especially given that for an increasing number of folks the alternative to doing what you're told is starvation (food insecurity), homelessness, and death (from lack of healthcare).

If you can take even one action, you still have a choice

The fact of Harriet Tubman disproves your claim

Re: Uber wants to turn its drivers into a sensor grid for self-driving companies

#100

Post by msm_ »

paganel wrote: post #96
delfinom wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You need boots on the ground, so to speak, to see that new speed limit sign or the new lane paint. It'll shock you to know that you can simply get this from governments, some even provide this in API form

> or the new lane paint. I'd be surprised if this is a thing outside the biggest US (and European, for that matter) cities, judging from Google StreetView there are lots of streets in US cities/towns with almost no paint lines at all.

Do you mean in the API? I live in an European country and I don't think I ever saw an asphalt road without paint lines. This varies a lot between countries though.
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