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Internal FBI risk assessment of Bitcoin network [pdf]

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Re: Internal FBI risk assessment of Bitcoin network [pdf]

#91
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Dollar area (i.e. the US) has come closer to default than the Eurozone.

yep. But can the largest military power really default?

Well the European Union is the largest economy by GDP (not sure of eurozone). Can it 'collapse'? If it can collapse, what makes you think the largest military can't?

Re: Internal FBI risk assessment of Bitcoin network [pdf]

#92
post #83

I would love to participate in this discussion, but I feel like I don't know enough about the economics of currency to make any real contribution. Does anyone know of some good resources (online courses, books, etc)?

This is always a contested subject because economics has so many competing branches, many of them with more or less overt ideological overtones.

IMHO, you should listen to economists that (a) emphasize looking at the operational realities of what actually happens in the monetary system, and (b) tell you that banks matter for what happens in the economy.

(If you find it hard to believe that a majority of economists ignore banks in their models of the economy, good for you and your common sense!)

This means you should read what Steve Keen writes and listen to what he says (he blogs at http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/), and what the Modern Monetary Theory crowd write, as they explain such basic things as what role reserves and bonds play, from first principles (start here: http://neweconomicperspectives.org/p/modern-monetary-theory-...).

More generally, "endogenous money" is an important keyword to look out for, because our monetary systems are endogenous in the sense that money is mostly created by banks, not by the government.

If you venture into online economics resources, you will run into a lot of (economic) Austrians. I believe this is mostly because of the Mises institute, which is well funded by people with an ideological ax to grind. It's good to reflect on their messages occasionally, but they should be taken with a grain of salt. (And since they are hardcore gold bugs, they don't get endogenous money, which means that much of what they say simply doesn't apply to our current economic framework.)

Re: Internal FBI risk assessment of Bitcoin network [pdf]

#93
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yep. But can the largest military power really default?

Easier than anyone else, I'd say. "Hi Everyone, POTUS here. About those treasury bonds a lot of you are holding... we're not going to pay interest on them. Or pay back the princiapl. Ever. On a totally unrelated note, here are some pictures of our 11 carrier strike groups. Impressive, aren't they?"

"Hey, POTUS, you got us. BTW, we'll never lend you money again. Or vote for your party again."

The US would never need to default on its debt, since its debt is in USD. Worst case, it would just print more money, leading to inflation.

Re: Internal FBI risk assessment of Bitcoin network [pdf]

#94

Another part of the global anti-cybermoney-publicity-campagne that we can see right now starting is a study of the European Central Bank on "Virtual Currency Schemes", Oct. 2012. Read it: http://www.ecb.int/pub/pdf/other/virtualcurrencyschemes20121... Edit: BTW, if you are interested in international monetary policy you can find many important publications on the ECB site: http://www.ecb.int/pub/html/index.en.html

I suspect you may be overreacting with the tinfoil-hattery. Obviously those institutions like the ECB and the FBI are interested in virtual and new currencies. That's part of their job!

But if you actually read those publications, you'll notice that they aren't very urgent at all. Their stance is basically that they want to keep up with the development, but don't see a reason to act right now.

Re: Internal FBI risk assessment of Bitcoin network [pdf]

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agreed, but I think it's worth pointing out that you could technically "own" the Bitcoin "printing press" if the $BTC distribution is skewed drastically to a particular majority (who could then corrupt the protocol/subsequent block chains). This is why initially, many people were told to use different mining pools or exchanges, as I recall there were a few majority cases a year or so ago (even Mt. Gox still h…

assuming that everyone plays fair, uses common sense Big assumption.

+1 for pointing out the fallacies of human nature... I totally agree, this is probably the most dangerously evil assumption in the underlying Bitcoin implementation.

One I would argue is a necessary evil.

Re: Internal FBI risk assessment of Bitcoin network [pdf]

#96
post #83

I would love to participate in this discussion, but I feel like I don't know enough about the economics of currency to make any real contribution. Does anyone know of some good resources (online courses, books, etc)?

This is always a contested subject because economics has so many competing branches, many of them with more or less overt ideological overtones. IMHO, you should listen to economists that (a) emphasize looking at the operational realities of what actually happens in the monetary system, and (b) tell you that banks matter for what happens in the economy. (If you find it hard to believe that a majority of economists ig…

Thanks, I'll take a look. I am definitely more interested in case study, and reality than an idealogical system.

Re: Internal FBI risk assessment of Bitcoin network [pdf]

#97
post #83

I would love to participate in this discussion, but I feel like I don't know enough about the economics of currency to make any real contribution. Does anyone know of some good resources (online courses, books, etc)?

I felt the same way when I discovered bitcoin last year. Here are some books that I read that helped:

* "End the Fed" by Ron Paul

* "Economics in One Lesson" by Henry Hazlitt

* "The Mystery of Banking" by Murray Rothbard

* "What has government done with our money?" by Murray Rothbard

* "Debt: The First 5000 Years" by David Graeber

Re: Internal FBI risk assessment of Bitcoin network [pdf]

#98
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yep. But can the largest military power really default?

Easier than anyone else, I'd say. "Hi Everyone, POTUS here. About those treasury bonds a lot of you are holding... we're not going to pay interest on them. Or pay back the princiapl. Ever. On a totally unrelated note, here are some pictures of our 11 carrier strike groups. Impressive, aren't they?"

Argentina is a serial defaulter yet investors still lend money to the government there.

If the U.S. decided to completely default on it's debt it would be more destructive to the U.S. economy since the majority of the debt is held by U.S. citizens & institutions. Insurance companies & banks would collapse instantly since the a very large percent of their asset bases would be wiped out.

We (meaning U.S. citizens) owe more to ourselves than to any foreign entity. Default is, at least right now, a political non-starter.

Re: Internal FBI risk assessment of Bitcoin network [pdf]

#99
post #83

I would love to participate in this discussion, but I feel like I don't know enough about the economics of currency to make any real contribution. Does anyone know of some good resources (online courses, books, etc)?

I felt the same way when I discovered bitcoin last year. Here are some books that I read that helped: * "End the Fed" by Ron Paul * "Economics in One Lesson" by Henry Hazlitt * "The Mystery of Banking" by Murray Rothbard * "What has government done with our money?" by Murray Rothbard * "Debt: The First 5000 Years" by David Graeber

It would also be beneficial to read what pro-central bank arguments are. The Regional Reserve Banks maintain extensive research & documents to learn how the Fed operates and the underlying argument as to why it should exist.

This wikipedia link could be a good start in addition to the selection of books above: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System

Re: Internal FBI risk assessment of Bitcoin network [pdf]

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really do not have a clue how our monetary system works, do you?

So enlighten us all, rather than posting snarky comments.

The last time on HN that I responded to blatant ignorance with a three-paragraph summarization of a complex system, I was called rude because I said, "You don't seem to know how X works."
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