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United Wizards of the Coast

unitedwizardsofthecoast.com

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Re: United Wizards of the Coast

#91

Post by robrenaud »

ryandrake wrote: post #82
looneysquash wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The company you work for almost always has more power in negotiations than you do. (For some hypothetical "you".) The bigger the company is, the more power they have typically. If you want to make more money or get better benefits or otherwise negotiate a better contract, you need more leverage. Unionizing is one way to gain more negotiation power by negotiating together with your co-workers instead of individually.…

A lot of HN repliers think that they , out of thousands of other employees, are that One Captain Of Industry that has sufficient bargaining and negotiating power to stand toe to toe with a huge employer. And therefore, a union could never help tech employees as a class.

My big gripe with unions is the unwavering protection of their worst performing members.

Eg, that they necessitated so called "rubber rooms" like these in the NYC public schools, where teachers got paid to do nothing while waiting on arbitration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reassignment_center

Re: United Wizards of the Coast

#92

Post by mjr00 »

satvikpendem wrote: post #66
glance9835 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Not sure about "all." High earners generally do not benefit from unions as they can make more negotiating their own labor value versus participating in collective negotiation which is more likely to drag their compensation down towards the average, even if it's still higher than average.

> High earners generally do not benefit from unions as they can make more negotiating their own labor value versus participating in collective negotiation which is more likely to drag their compensation down towards the average, even if it's still higher than average.

High earners benefit from unions if union rules are made which benefit high earners.

The most well-known example of a high-earner union is SAG-AFTRA and they provide benefits to established performers, the big one being name exclusivity. e.g. even if your real life birth certificate says your name is "Tom Cruise" you cannot advertise your name as "Tom Cruise". Obviously, actors are still negotiating their own pay.

Another good one is the NFL Players Association which capped the rookie pay scale in 2011 to ensure the salary cap was going more toward veterans, people already in the union. However they still independently negotiate their compensation.

I don't know what people would want out of a tech union specifically but the idea that "union = payscale based on seniority" just plain isn't true.

Re: United Wizards of the Coast

#93

Post by rafram »

nonethewiser wrote: post #76
perrohunter wrote: post #44

I think there are some professions where Unions make sense, like for Pilots and Teachers, as a 30 years of experience teacher can be replaced with a 2 years of experience teacher, so we need unions to protect the experienced Teacher or Pilot, but when it comes to what MTG Arena does, I dont see much value on the union existing, perhaps someone can provide some valuable insight

The ability to unionize has very little to do with the ideology of the workforce and everything to do with the structure of the industry. It wont work out in video games because it's not a critical industry and there are plenty of people willing to do the work.

That logic doesn’t make any sense to me. Game programming, art, and even marketing are highly specific niches within those broader fields. You can’t pick any random programmer off the street and get them up to speed on game development overnight (let alone your specific crazy custom engine/architecture, as often seems to be the case).

Re: United Wizards of the Coast

#94

Post by hungryhobbit »

ddtaylor wrote: post #30

WOTC has been on a downward trend since the Hasbro acquisition.

They might have been declining since then, but more recently I'd point to when they introduced Dr. Who, Transformers, My Little Pony, and a whole bunch of other crap into a game about wizards fighting in a fantasy world.

In the short term all the franchises have proved incredibly popular (just like in Fortnight), but in the long run I think it means the death of the game (just like where Fortnight is headed).

Re: United Wizards of the Coast

#95

Post by nonethewiser »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #87
nonethewiser wrote: post #72

I understand why workers in the video game industry want to unionize. They like the industry but the standards are shit. I do not see how unions will catch on in the video game industry. The ability to unionize has very little to do with the ideology of the workforce and everything to do with the structure of the industry. Unions tend to catch on when labor is irreplacable, workplace is large and centralized, if they…

I think on the contrary somewhat If everyone at a game developer goes on strike, there is basically no amount of outsourcing or scab labour that can replace them. This is actually probably true of basically all software Just refusing to share passwords into key systems would be enough to significantly halt any attempt to bring on an entirely new development team

Yes but what happens? The video game is not maintained or released. Society doesnt care that much. It's not critical and there are millions of alternatives.

Re: United Wizards of the Coast

#96

Post by bena »

Banditoz wrote: post #35
nonethewiser wrote: post #28

What is the Arena team? Looks like the team that makes the Magic The Gathering video game?

Arena is WotC's video game version of Magic the Gathering, yeah. Notably it's got microtransactions and such for opening packs of cards.

TBF, that's just kind of built into the product naturally.

Re: United Wizards of the Coast

#97

Post by glasss »

Lonestar1440 wrote: post #90
looneysquash wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The company you work for almost always has more power in negotiations than you do. (For some hypothetical "you".) The bigger the company is, the more power they have typically. If you want to make more money or get better benefits or otherwise negotiate a better contract, you need more leverage. Unionizing is one way to gain more negotiation power by negotiating together with your co-workers instead of individually.…

The big assumption here is that the Union's interests are, in fact, aligned with You, the Worker. If they're not, then you're just caught between two powerful, unaccountable entities. You have to join the Union, after all. I see a lot of folks in Education who feel that the Union simply Exists and does not really help them (their employers being rather sympathetic as well). When they are, of course the Worker benefit…

I think on average it's a safer assumption that the union made up of your peers are more aligned with your interests than the owners of the company are.

All of my friends that are teachers do admit their union has flaws, but also are very grateful to have strong contracts, benefits, and people willing to fight for them when the school system tries to screw them over.

Re: United Wizards of the Coast

#98

Post by nonethewiser »

rafram wrote: post #93
nonethewiser wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability to unionize has very little to do with the ideology of the workforce and everything to do with the structure of the industry. It wont work out in video games because it's not a critical industry and there are plenty of people willing to do the work.

That logic doesn’t make any sense to me. Game programming, art, and even marketing are highly specific niches within those broader fields. You can’t pick any random programmer off the street and get them up to speed on game development overnight (let alone your specific crazy custom engine/architecture, as often seems to be the case).

1) Nothing critical is lost if a video game team stops working. Society doesnt need it and there are lots of alternatives.

2) There is already a major labor surplus for video games. It's famously hard to get into and low paying because of it. There is no doubt someone else is willing to step in.

Re: United Wizards of the Coast

#99

Post by threetonesun »

robrenaud wrote: post #91
ryandrake wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of HN repliers think that they , out of thousands of other employees, are that One Captain Of Industry that has sufficient bargaining and negotiating power to stand toe to toe with a huge employer. And therefore, a union could never help tech employees as a class.

My big gripe with unions is the unwavering protection of their worst performing members. Eg, that they necessitated so called "rubber rooms" like these in the NYC public schools, where teachers got paid to do nothing while waiting on arbitration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reassignment_center

I doubt you'll find many people in favor of how bad cops get protected by police unions either. At least in the US I'd much rather a broad social net so my health care and retirement weren't so directly tied to my job than a union specific to my trade.

Re: United Wizards of the Coast

#100

Post by darkwater »

nonethewiser wrote: post #95
bluefirebrand wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think on the contrary somewhat If everyone at a game developer goes on strike, there is basically no amount of outsourcing or scab labour that can replace them. This is actually probably true of basically all software Just refusing to share passwords into key systems would be enough to significantly halt any attempt to bring on an entirely new development team

Yes but what happens? The video game is not maintained or released. Society doesnt care that much. It's not critical and there are millions of alternatives.

Well, it happens that the company that has workers on strike at some point stops making money because of that.
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