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Dutch central bank ditches AWS and chooses Lidl for European Cloud

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Re: Dutch central bank ditches AWS and chooses Lidl for European Cloud

#91

Isn't this how AWS also started? They built internal devops tools for them that were so good and expandable that they decided to give others access to them.

Yeah, though in this case the selling point is less about scale and more about data sovereignty. German companies are pretty touchy about storing data cross borders

Re: Dutch central bank ditches AWS and chooses Lidl for European Cloud

#92
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is great, your suggestion to replace s3 and ddb is to run some VMs? I don’t blame people for being skeptical

> This is great, your suggestion to replace s3 and ddb is to run some VMs? Well... yes? What do you think the AWS S3 and DDB is running on? Fairy dust?

No it’s using an army of extremely well paid engineers, something I guarantee the parent comment has no access to

Re: Dutch central bank ditches AWS and chooses Lidl for European Cloud

#93
post #5

Years ago I was making the case that instead of digging ourselves into the Amazon eco-system with S3 storage, EC2 instances, DynamoDB and various other Amazon specific cloud products... we should just host virtual machines and have everything in there using open source products. People looked at me like they saw water burning but that would have made the dependency on the US a lot easier to sever. Just move the VM's.

There was a period when development and system adminstrators were really concerned about vendor lock in and would choose on the basis of the ease of moving to a different platform, Java and J2EE was clearly based on this mindset. I have always found it odd people have been willing to adopt AWS with no apparent easy route off given its price.

> I have always found it odd people have been willing to adopt AWS ...

It's the new "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM".

Re: Dutch central bank ditches AWS and chooses Lidl for European Cloud

#94
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is great, your suggestion to replace s3 and ddb is to run some VMs? Well... yes? What do you think the AWS S3 and DDB is running on? Fairy dust?

No it’s using an army of extremely well paid engineers, something I guarantee the parent comment has no access to

> No it’s using an army of extremely well paid engineers, something I guarantee the parent comment has no access to

That's a different argument to the one I replied to, and the reply to "they have expensive infra people" is "you have to have expensive product-trained people to use them anyway".

Re: Dutch central bank ditches AWS and chooses Lidl for European Cloud

#95
I've got experience with the LIDL cloud aka STACKIT and work for a STACKIT partner. Just drop me a message if you are interested. Two fun solutions implemented (fully automated via Terraform):

Site-to-Site VPN between STACKIT and Azure using a LibreSwan VM and an Azure VPN Gateway

FortiGate HA cluster in STACKIT - not a single ICMP packet got lost during failover

Re: Dutch central bank ditches AWS and chooses Lidl for European Cloud

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole business model is around “Optimization through custom tools”. We can go with your idea, sure: a few months in, an Account Manager from the cloud provider shows up and says your bill could be reduced by 50% if you just adopt some changes, using their custom, super optimized tools (“minor changes” will be the mantra). And now you have your own company looking back to you on how can they get those savings, peo…

Do people actually take claims like that from glorified salesmen seriously? If a car salesman told me I could save 50% of my fuel bill from driving their special car a certain way I'd laugh at them.

AWS has been (blatantly) using Microsoft method of making their way in. Redis, Elasticsearch, whatnot, all follow the same procedure: 1. Here is a managed service. 2. Here is a fork of the managed service where we manage the server (you don't see) with 15% off in price/credits. Easier backups with clicks etc. 3. We are dropping support of managed-X, move to our fork. 4. Due to the market conditions, our forked service is now 50% more expensive. 5. Ah also, you cannot export/download your backups because they are in proprietary format. 6. Locked-in.

Re: Dutch central bank ditches AWS and chooses Lidl for European Cloud

#99

> DNB Director Steven Maijoor announced last October that he intended to “set a good example” and switch to a European cloud, though he acknowledged that it “is not yet as robust or high-quality as the one from the U.S.” > Last year, the Dutch Central Bank (DNB) and the Netherlands Authority for the Financial Markets (AFM) warned that the Dutch financial sector had become too dependent on foreign IT service providers…

If the DNB says getting our clown computers from Americans is an operational risk, we believe it's an operational risk. Political or not.

Re: Dutch central bank ditches AWS and chooses Lidl for European Cloud

#100
post #68
post #5

Years ago I was making the case that instead of digging ourselves into the Amazon eco-system with S3 storage, EC2 instances, DynamoDB and various other Amazon specific cloud products... we should just host virtual machines and have everything in there using open source products. People looked at me like they saw water burning but that would have made the dependency on the US a lot easier to sever. Just move the VM's.

I am running my startup out of a self build GPU server from our office with a backup to the cloud. I only pay for the IP address as electricity is included in the rent. If the startup fails, Ill have thousand other potential use case for it and in the worst case, it will make for a awesome gaming machine. The machine is a beast and I can serve a lot of users with it. In fact, and quite funnily, I already serve much m…

> The machine is a beast and I can serve a lot of users with it. In fact, and quite funnily, I already serve much more users with it than a lot of my older clients do with their software running on expensive k8s setup because „scale“ :-)

Honestly even if you have a single server, running k8s (or maybe Docker Compose for really simple cases) on it is still the simplest way to manage it (assuming you have more than 1 service, anyway). One configuration file format, one CLI tool, zero special paths to memorize, no filesystem permissions to configure, pretty good security out of the box, access to a whole bunch of helm charts and operators (for example, cert-manager, external-dns, prometheus, alert-manager, some logging operator for centralized logging with a decent UI and search, and a postgres operator for backups / replication / failover), etc.

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