CATL's new LFP battery can charge from 10 to 98% in less than 7 minutes • Hacker News Board

Re: CATL's new LFP battery can charge from 10 to 98% in less than 7 minutes

#91

Post by wakawaka28 » Thu, Apr 23, 2026, 1:13 AM UTC

crote wrote: post #73

rcxdude wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swapping does help reduce the high peak power demands that fast charging has. There's limited places where you can get the infrastructure to install a bank of chargers capable of this kind of speed (though, one potential approach is having a local block of batteries near the charger, but you are then paying the efficiency cost of another battery round-trip, and the cost of the batteries which will get a lot of wear a…

The charging station's batteries don't have to use the same chemistry though, as they aren't space- and weight-constrained like EV batteries are. You can optimize for durability and cost instead. Having station-based storage also allows the station to participate on the energy market and purchase only when electricity is cheap. It could even do double duty by selling back electricity from storage during periods of hi…

Station batteries are an additional toxic inextinguishable fire hazard and expense to consider. I wonder what is the efficiency loss in charging one battery to turn around and charge another too. But you are generally right: stationary batteries do not need to be lightweight like the ones in cars.

Re: CATL's new LFP battery can charge from 10 to 98% in less than 7 minutes

#92

Post by wakawaka28 » Thu, Apr 23, 2026, 1:20 AM UTC

crote wrote: post #72

maeln wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should always take marketing number with a huge grain of salt, so the 10 to 98% in 7 minutes remain to be seen. Also, there is the question of if it lowers the battery lifespan faster than charging at lower power. It is does, there might still be a point in battery swap, especially for public transport systems (for bus). A public transit operator might want to have more battery than vehicle, so that they can rotat…

> there might still be a point in battery swap, especially for public transport systems There isn't. Buses aren't really size- or weight-constricted and don't drive at highway speeds, so building one with enough battery capacity to last most of the day isn't a big deal. Plenty of cities have already transitioned to a 100% electric bus fleet, after all. A big thing to remember is that people don't travel at the same v…

There are many cases where the EV busses have been abandoned. Busses typically do not do their route and stop, so getting a significant amount of charging for any busses requires extra busses that can be rotated on/off duty. If you design the system to depend on that charging then you need extra busses and you're effectively stuck with a sparse schedule. That is not a constraint to consider with petrol-powered busses. They can run nonstop as much as needed.

There is another thing cities should consider in all this: EV busses are totally unsuitable in emergencies. They cannot be charged fast enough, especially in extreme weather. You should consider this before buying an EV as well. At least, have a plan to arrange alternate transport with a reliable petrol vehicle.

Re: CATL's new LFP battery can charge from 10 to 98% in less than 7 minutes

#93

Post by postalrat » Thu, Apr 23, 2026, 3:14 AM UTC

vfclists wrote: post #63

0xfaded wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but I giggled at this. A well designed urban environment would have no cars.

Cars,those urban monstrosities the vehicles that weigh over 25 times their payload and take up 20 times the space on the roads. Should I adjust the figures for American sizes? Should I also add that they are engineered to travel at speeds over 120 mph and usually ply the trade environments where 30 mph is a dangerous speed?

Amazing machines. Can't wait till I can buy something a bit bigger that can also travel to other planets

Re: CATL's new LFP battery can charge from 10 to 98% in less than 7 minutes

#94

Post by perching_aix » Thu, Apr 23, 2026, 6:22 AM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #44

perching_aix wrote: post #4

Saw this yesterday, did not expect the competition around Donut's batteries to heat up this much and this quickly. Even the gravimetric density is fairly close, CATL's claim is 350 Wh/kg, compared to Donut's 400 Wh/kg. The safety and durability (plus no lithium) prospects of Donut's V1 battery are still big though (if the thing is actually real).

Feels weird to pollute a thread about the progress of the largest battery manufacturer in the world that does real science and engineering and massive industrial installations... with a comment about an almost certainly fraudulent fly-by-night company making tiny batteries for motorbikes and not providing real science or published papers to back up their extraordinary claims.

Please do exercise the downvote and flag buttons in that case, instead of polluting the thread with a performative tirade like this. Seems weird that you'd use this as an opportunity to rehash blatantly obvious talking points others have already brought up here before you, if it really does merely just bother you that this is what the respective reputations are and that they're being brought into comparison regardless. It comes across as an attempt to discredit and mock rather than as a genuine upset.

See, I can do this too. All it takes is a modicum amount of conspiratorial thinking and some willingness to engage in ill faith, with a dash of flair for the dramatic. For normal people, it was instead just "oh yeah, news cycle thing one vs news cycle thing two".

Re: CATL's new LFP battery can charge from 10 to 98% in less than 7 minutes

#95

Post by SideburnsOfDoom » Thu, Apr 23, 2026, 6:49 AM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #87

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the math though. Approximately 0% of those vehicles at the busy gas station ever fuel up at home. Most of those EV fuel up most of the time at home or at a "Destination Charger" at places other than a roadside DC Super-Fast charger. I see figures given that around 80% of EV charging is done at home (1). That doesn't mean that the other 20% has to be super-fast though, it will be less than that. https://www…

Only people with houses get to charge at home. All the non-rich who don't own houses are stuck with commercial chargers. It will be the reality for so so many people.

1) Do you dispute the 80% at home figure, and if so, on what basis?

2) Are you claiming that all "not at home" commercial charging is "busy gas station" style fast charging while waiting, and if so, on what basis?

Applying gas station capacity math to EVS as if they are like for like will give wrong answers. Your point about access to charge at home is valid but unrelated to that.

Re: CATL's new LFP battery can charge from 10 to 98% in less than 7 minutes

#96

Post by SideburnsOfDoom » Thu, Apr 23, 2026, 7:59 AM UTC

hangonhn wrote: post #52

WarmWash wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole fast charge thing is mostly marketing to convert people from "gas car mindset" into getting an EV. The reality of the situation is that most people who buy an EV will use fast charging only a few times a year. The majority will be charging overnight to recuperate their daily use, which amounts to drawing What would be a strain though is large ultra fast charging stations along major travel corridors. But I'…

Wait. You're missing something. Charging was what stopped me from getting an EV when I was a renter. In a world where I can recharge in 7 to 10 minutes, it becomes a lot more feasible for a renter to get an EV without at home charging capabilities. A renter can just pull up to a recharging station. Wait 7 to 10 minutes or (maybe 5 if they don't mind a half charge) and be off.

> renter to get an EV without at home charging capabilities.

Assuming that your car is parked for 18 hours of the day or more (and if it is not, you're a courier, taxi driver or similar) the question is not "do I own or rent the place where I live?" it is "How do I get electricity to where the car is normally parked?"

If you solve that with a L2 charger - at night or during the day, you're good. Then recharge time becomes irrelevant as you don't stand there waiting for it, and it happens as part of daily routine. You don't have to regularly pay attention to "When do I have to go get fuel?", it's just done daily.

Electricity is found nearly everywhere, you do not have to treat it as something found only at a special fuelling station. EVS are unlike gas cars in that respect.

Re: CATL's new LFP battery can charge from 10 to 98% in less than 7 minutes

#97

Post by perching_aix » Thu, Apr 23, 2026, 9:54 AM UTC

audunw wrote: post #27

bayesianbot wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feels quite clear Donut doesn't have much - no meaningful new tests released for many weeks already and some executive of Nordic Nano sued Donut Lab and said their claims were misleading. I haven't really followed that closely myself, but I've noticed the people who I saw defending Donut before have gone really quiet about it lately.

I find the talk around Donut so weird. At CES we were told they had nothing because they hadn’t shared third party test. They then shared third party tests remarkably fast. From the dating of VTT reports it’s clear they shared it as soon as VTT finalised their reports. Now they have nothing because they haven’t released enough tests fast enough? It’s clear they have something very interesting. We’re mainly missing lo…

I think by this point they demonstrated basically all the characteristics of their battery well enough, except for the density, but then that was a pretty damn important and big claim. I'm not sure they can afford to delay that much longer. Or the actual shipment of products.

Re: CATL's new LFP battery can charge from 10 to 98% in less than 7 minutes

#98

Post by antonkochubey » Thu, Apr 23, 2026, 12:31 PM UTC

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #68

antonkochubey wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, with range decreasing, number of charge cycles per mile, and therefore rate of wear, will increase. Second, average age of car on the road is above 10 years in most countries; and those that drive old cars definitely do not have €26,500* spare to swap their EV's battery for a new one. *That's what Audi charges here for e-tron 50 battery replacement, which are already starting to fail for many owners

> First, with range decreasing, number of charge cycles per mile, and therefore rate of wear, will increase. By 10% over 10 years, assuming the worst case of nothing but ultra-fast charging. This seems minor. Old cheaper cars could be 10% less convenient to use for very long trips. This should not shock anyone. Rather than an expensive battery swap, sell it on at a lower price to someone who doesn't need 100% range.

That's a theoretical / marketing number. In real life I am yet to see meet an EV owner who reports >80% of range after 5 years / 100 000 km of mostly-at-home charging. I see those on internet forums, but on internet forums, anyone can write anything, so I do not take those reports too seriously.

From my personal family anecdotes: my mothers' 4 year old Hyundai Ioniq 5 had complete battery failure. Thankfully under warranty. And my fathers' 5 year old Audi e-tron 50 already has <80% range remaining, with very rare fast charging.

Re: CATL's new LFP battery can charge from 10 to 98% in less than 7 minutes

#99

Post by nfriedly » Thu, Apr 23, 2026, 12:41 PM UTC

cestith wrote: post #64

dirck-norman wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 minute swap is not needed for this.

Well, if it degrades to 90% after three years, and let’s extrapolate to 81% after another two to three years, then a battery swap in 5 minutes might be reasonable to do instead of charging once every three to five years or so. I guess it depends on the quality and retained capacity on the batteries being swapped in.

> Well, if it degrades to 90% after three years, and let’s extrapolate to 81% after another two to three years,

That sounds like a phone battery, not an EV battery. Modern EVs should last 15-20 years before seeing significant degredation.

Re: CATL's new LFP battery can charge from 10 to 98% in less than 7 minutes

#100

Post by cestith » Thu, Apr 23, 2026, 1:10 PM UTC

nfriedly wrote: post #99

cestith wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if it degrades to 90% after three years, and let’s extrapolate to 81% after another two to three years, then a battery swap in 5 minutes might be reasonable to do instead of charging once every three to five years or so. I guess it depends on the quality and retained capacity on the batteries being swapped in.

> Well, if it degrades to 90% after three years, and let’s extrapolate to 81% after another two to three years, That sounds like a phone battery, not an EV battery. Modern EVs should last 15-20 years before seeing significant degredation.

That was assuming, based on their recharge count, daily 10% to 98% rapid charging. You’d only see that in a vehicle of this range if it’s being used as like a courier vehicle or moving billboard. Pretty much the actual worst cases.