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Dad brains: How fatherhood rewires the male mind

bbc.com

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Re: Dad brains: How fatherhood rewires the male mind

#91

Post by theturtlemoves »

andy99 wrote: post #16

Saw this earlier today, I think it’s very flawed and ideological, unfortunately other posts mentioning this got flagged. First there’s the idea that “nurturing” is somehow what kids need and better for them automatically, that whatever a stereotypical man does with kids is bad for them, and we need to be rewired by pheromones or whatever to be more sensitive. And as a corollary the idea that a high-T man somehow is a…

Four things are needed. Stereotypically they're divided Dad: Protect and provide Mom: Nurture and nourish

You could do it differently, but that only works if you swap one, not share half half.

Both have been eroded. Kids are raised by strangers, our food is crap, you can't warn each other about dangers cause that's somehow an insult and a single income doesn't pay the bills.

The goal seems to be to set men and women against each other.

Re: Dad brains: How fatherhood rewires the male mind

#92

Post by narvidas »

Just a personal anecdotal datapoint, but relevant and possibly interesting nonetheless.

I work full time and even by modern standards I'm what most would call a heavily-involved father. I have an 18month old.

After my daughter was born, due to the amount of stress and lack of sleep I very soon realised I had to return to doing regular resistance training, clean diet and cut other things like drinking alcohol. In order to keep my energy levels sufficiently high and mental health in check.

I now feel much better than I did in years. Albeit still heavily sleep deprived most days. Recent bloodwork shows that my T levels nearly doubled (compared to before becoming a dad) from average to slightly off-the-charts high.

Take it as you will, but for me fatherhood forced me to reevaluate how I spend my time very carefully, forcing me to take care of myself more so I can take care of my family sufficiently too.

Re: Dad brains: How fatherhood rewires the male mind

#93

Post by brigandish »

nickburns wrote: post #9

By the time Gettler looked into this field, it was already an established fact that fathers had lower testosterone that [sic] men without kids. I'm sure this typo will be promptly corrected. But it does offer some sense into how thoroughly this article was proofread prior to publication.

I knew a sub-editor. According to them, they were not to use a spellchecker because it would lead to them being sloppy when checking for mistakes.

I think about that every time I see a typo, and about that study showing that journalists aren’t the brightest[1].

[1] https://www.businessinsider.com/journalists-brains-function-...

Re: Dad brains: How fatherhood rewires the male mind

#94

Post by kstenerud »

jvanderbot wrote: post #50

Not to the direct thesis of the article, but I want to share one absolute 180 I had after having kids. Before kiddos I took the apriori belief that it would kinda suck. The belief was unassailable because I thought, evolutionarily, if it was fun to have kids it wouldn't be fun to make them - otherwise we'd endure unfun "making" because we know the having would be fun. I know now how stupid that was on many levels. Ju…

Yeah, that never happened for me. Before and after, I felt pretty much the same. Now she's an adult and it's weird.

Re: Dad brains: How fatherhood rewires the male mind

#95

Post by rrgok »

narvidas wrote: post #92

Just a personal anecdotal datapoint, but relevant and possibly interesting nonetheless. I work full time and even by modern standards I'm what most would call a heavily-involved father. I have an 18month old. After my daughter was born, due to the amount of stress and lack of sleep I very soon realised I had to return to doing regular resistance training, clean diet and cut other things like drinking alcohol. In orde…

If you need external input to improve yourself then I'm wondering if you are ready to be a father. I might sound rude, but it is not my intention. I don't know how else to put it. It is still better than people who never learn this either way.

Re: Dad brains: How fatherhood rewires the male mind

#97

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

theturtlemoves wrote: post #91
andy99 wrote: post #16

Saw this earlier today, I think it’s very flawed and ideological, unfortunately other posts mentioning this got flagged. First there’s the idea that “nurturing” is somehow what kids need and better for them automatically, that whatever a stereotypical man does with kids is bad for them, and we need to be rewired by pheromones or whatever to be more sensitive. And as a corollary the idea that a high-T man somehow is a…

Four things are needed. Stereotypically they're divided Dad: Protect and provide Mom: Nurture and nourish You could do it differently, but that only works if you swap one, not share half half. Both have been eroded. Kids are raised by strangers, our food is crap, you can't warn each other about dangers cause that's somehow an insult and a single income doesn't pay the bills. The goal seems to be to set men and women…

> Four things are needed. Stereotypically they're divided Dad: Protect and provide Mom: Nurture and nourish

> You could do it differently, but that only works if you swap one, not share half half.

I disagree. But I started nurturing early by planning and orchestrating all our births (home, birth center, birth center, twins/hospital) and her prenatal care.

Much later, my wife developed psych issues and in the end I was performing all roles to our 5 sons. But well before then I was deeply into nurturing our sons as infants, toddlers, PreK and grade schoolers. I changed most of the diapers (cloth! for sons 1 & 2.). I packed lunches, did cub scout leadership, cleaned up the wounds and encouraged them to go get more.

Compared to competent moms and dads, I wasn't substandard, insufficient or compromised in any way.

Re: Dad brains: How fatherhood rewires the male mind

#98

Post by ozozozd »

theturtlemoves wrote: post #91
andy99 wrote: post #16

Saw this earlier today, I think it’s very flawed and ideological, unfortunately other posts mentioning this got flagged. First there’s the idea that “nurturing” is somehow what kids need and better for them automatically, that whatever a stereotypical man does with kids is bad for them, and we need to be rewired by pheromones or whatever to be more sensitive. And as a corollary the idea that a high-T man somehow is a…

Four things are needed. Stereotypically they're divided Dad: Protect and provide Mom: Nurture and nourish You could do it differently, but that only works if you swap one, not share half half. Both have been eroded. Kids are raised by strangers, our food is crap, you can't warn each other about dangers cause that's somehow an insult and a single income doesn't pay the bills. The goal seems to be to set men and women…

I mean, how you clearly point out the immovable constraint and blow past it as if the whole thing is just a cultural fad is somewhat shocking.

Single income doesn’t pay the bills. Period. Everything else is downstream.

One could argue that your talking about the dangers of these downstream effects is insulting and classist. Who is gonna pay these bills? Do you think we prefer that strangers raise our kids?

If we had a trust fund, we would raise our kids ourselves, and backhand brag on forums about how it is the right way. Sadly, we don’t.

Re: Dad brains: How fatherhood rewires the male mind

#99

Post by ozozozd »

interpol_p wrote: post #41
pfannkuchen wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Woah. As an adult man with five kids, two of them infants, the most natural thing in the world is for them to be present in almost every second of my life. It’s not difficult at all. Minutes after birth, naked baby was on my naked chest, and bonding started. This never felt contrary to my instinct.

Ok, you may consider it easy after 5, and kudos to you, but kids are definitely not “not difficult.”

I agree that it’s the most natural thing, and I consider most of my time spent elsewhere to be a waste, but our youngest is very active and worrying about her wellbeing for extended periods is definitely exhausting!

Re: Dad brains: How fatherhood rewires the male mind

#100

Post by theturtlemoves »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #97
theturtlemoves wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Four things are needed. Stereotypically they're divided Dad: Protect and provide Mom: Nurture and nourish You could do it differently, but that only works if you swap one, not share half half. Both have been eroded. Kids are raised by strangers, our food is crap, you can't warn each other about dangers cause that's somehow an insult and a single income doesn't pay the bills. The goal seems to be to set men and women…

> Four things are needed. Stereotypically they're divided Dad: Protect and provide Mom: Nurture and nourish > You could do it differently, but that only works if you swap one, not share half half. I disagree. But I started nurturing early by planning and orchestrating all our births (home, birth center, birth center, twins/hospital) and her prenatal care. Much later, my wife developed psych issues and in the end I wa…

If I may attempt to clarify my stance. Stereotypically, on average, interpolate for your marriage and all that, if a man does a task/role, he has the ball. He doesn't share the ball. Doing X is my job? Aight, my job. No touchy. Mine. I've got this.

Wife starts doing X. Boom, clarity lost.

I know, I know, shades of grey and all that. But on average, divide it clearly and you know who is responsible for what.

You did all of it, while your wife was sick. Kudos man, tough job done well.

My point wasn't about the heaviness of the task, or about how well each could do it, but about clarity and role division.

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