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Bodega cats of New York

bodegacatsofnewyork.com

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Re: Bodega cats of New York

#91

Post by timschmidt »

something765478 wrote: post #88
timschmidt wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> low-impact As one of the 10% of humanity who has a severe allergy to cats which causes me to be unable to breathe, break out in hives, and weep incredible amounts from every exposed mucus membrane, I had to laugh at this. And cry a little. Y'all have no idea how high impact cats are. Fel D proteins seem to trigger immune responses across a broad range of mammals. They are homologs of slow loris venom which also cau…

> Rat traps are less expensive, more effective, less prone to killing things other than rats, sanitary, don't have to be fed, don't need a litter box, don't cause allergies, don't need shots, medications, or vet visits, and don't have kittens. Far lower impact and much less work than a cat. Are they? If the cats are eating rats, then they don't really need to be fed. If they're allowed to go outside, then you might n…

Yes, they are, objectively. The minimal amount of labor involved in setting and clearing a trap (literally 30 seconds) is significantly less than the time spent tending to a cat. Even if you only pet it occasionally. I own traps I don't even have to touch with my hands. And they were inexpensive.

Rat traps work 24/7, unlike a cat which sleeps up to 16 hours a day.

Cats must be spade or neutered, an additional cost and effort lest they contribute to the epidemic of semi-feral cats.

Outdoor domestic cats kill an estimated 7 - 26 billion wild animals yearly, most birds, 3/4 of which weren't eaten when studied.

Outdoor cats especially need flea treatment, else they'll bring them into the building. Having dealt with a flea infestation, trust me you don't want to. Involves poisoning your whole dwelling for a few days at significant expense.

Re: Bodega cats of New York

#92

Post by Amezarak »

trhway wrote: post #53
technothrasher wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rats that the cats are keeping out of the stores are a much larger source of pathogen transmission to humans than the cats are. Not only do rats carry many more dangerous diseases than cats, but both can also transmit toxoplasmosis to humans. As it is transmitted through contact with feces, from which of the two are you more likely to encounter feces spread all over the store? So, while I actually find both rats…

I think we owe our civilization to cats - without them we would have never been able to stop being hunters-gatherers and settle into agricultural society as having food stores would have been impossible due to rats. And Black Death, owing to Church persecution of cats, is another great illustration of cats' role.

Cats were not widespread in the ancient world until very late. Herodotus writes about cats as an Egyptian novelty. People had mass food stores long before then.

Re: Bodega cats of New York

#94

Post by trhway »

Amezarak wrote: post #92
trhway wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we owe our civilization to cats - without them we would have never been able to stop being hunters-gatherers and settle into agricultural society as having food stores would have been impossible due to rats. And Black Death, owing to Church persecution of cats, is another great illustration of cats' role.

Cats were not widespread in the ancient world until very late. Herodotus writes about cats as an Egyptian novelty. People had mass food stores long before then.

Herodotus' anecdotes vs. modern genetics:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5790555/#:~:text=Ex...

"But recent genetic and archaeological discoveries indicate that cat domestication began in the Fertile Crescent, perhaps around 10,000 years ago, when agriculture was getting under way."

Edit in response to the comment below as i hit post-limit:

As it happens, we owe to weasels too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_depictions_of_cats#An...

"Housecats seem to have been extremely rare among the ancient Greeks and Romans;[16] the Greek historian Herodotus expressed astonishment at the domestic cats in Egypt, because he had only ever seen wildcats.[16] Even during later times, weasels were far more commonly kept as pets[16] and weasels, not cats, were seen as the ideal rodent-killers"

The main point still stands though.

Re: Bodega cats of New York

#95

Post by Amezarak »

trhway wrote: post #94
Amezarak wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cats were not widespread in the ancient world until very late. Herodotus writes about cats as an Egyptian novelty. People had mass food stores long before then.

Herodotus' anecdotes vs. modern genetics: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5790555/#:~:text=Ex... "But recent genetic and archaeological discoveries indicate that cat domestication began in the Fertile Crescent, perhaps around 10,000 years ago, when agriculture was getting under way." Edit in response to the comment below as i hit post-limit: As it happens, we owe to weasels too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki…

Even if we assume this is correct and Herodotus and others were simply ignorant of this, it's obvious that the Greeks of his time, including those in Anatolia where he lived, where food had been stored in massive quantities for centuries if not millennia, did not have cats.

Re: Bodega cats of New York

#96

Post by zdp7 »

kirubakaran wrote: post #26
jjtheblunt wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cat's themselves are not very sanitary. Better than rats, sure, but they are a source of toxoplasmosis Hyperbole and toxoplasmosis go well together. In particular: it's a limited time window when an infected feline could transmit toxoplasmosis. It can be dangerous to pregnancies, or immuno-compromised individuals. Most humans (and other beings) aren't pregnant or immunocompromised, but the drama of the topic gets c…

> Most humans (and other beings) aren't pregnant or immunocompromised Just because pregnant and immuno-compromised people are in the minority, it's not a big deal?

You don't get toxoplasmosis from touching a cat. You get it from touching cat feces and then ingesting it. The most common avenue of infection (in the US at least) is consuming raw or undercooked meat. Considering when my wife was pregnant, she asked our Doctor about it. His recommendation was she should not be the one to clean the litter box. So yeah, avoid cat feces and if you can't wash your hands. We don't need to get rid of cats. Also make sure the meat you eat is cooked properly.

Re: Bodega cats of New York

#97

Post by shawn_w »

RandallBrown wrote: post #9
bombcar wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of NYCs problem can be tied to their trash debacle, which is so outlandish it's hard for anyone not from there to believe is a real thing in 2206. It appears they finally discovered dumpsters recently: https://www.amny.com/news/curbside-empire-trash-bins-coming-... (Another crazy trash city was (is?) Seattle with their weird judgement causing everyone to compact their trash.)

What about Seattle's trash was crazy? I've lived here for 14 years and never noticed anything weird about it compared to other places I've lived.

There are areas of the city where instead of dumpsters, businesses and apartment complexes just put trash bags out in the alley/sidewalk for daily collection.

https://www.seattle.gov/utilities/your-services/collection-a...

Re: Bodega cats of New York

#98

Post by zdp7 »

sporadicism wrote: post #29
kirubakaran wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most humans (and other beings) aren't pregnant or immunocompromised Just because pregnant and immuno-compromised people are in the minority, it's not a big deal?

Additionally, I can't imagine being blase about gaining parasites just because you're not pregnant or immunocompromised.

The solution isn't get rid of cats, it's don't lick your hands after changing the litter box. Especially since cat feces isn't the most common source. Under cooked meat is.

Re: Bodega cats of New York

#99

Post by zdp7 »

timschmidt wrote: post #78
ikurei wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1 in every 10 people in public spaces. 1 in every 10 people may have a cat alergy, but the % of folks with an allergy as severe as yours has to be much lower. I know plenty of people with cat allergies who can spend entire evenings in my cat-inhabited with only very minor discomfort. The person with the most serious allergy to them I know is miles away from your symptoms. I think you are exaggerating the severity o…

> I think you are exaggerating the severity of the issue You and everyone else who doesn't suffer. But I was conservative by stating 10%. Medical literature says 10 - 20% and even qualifies that as a potential underestimate. I have looked for stats on severe sufferers, and they are unfortunately very difficult to find. It does suck. But I would caution you not to discount the discomfort of others so easily. People te…

Less than 0.5% of people are at risk of anaphylaxis from cat allergies. Since you brought up peanut allergies, it's relevant to point out that we haven't banned peanuts. It sucks that you and others suffer, but getting rid of cats doesn't make sense when you can ask if there are cats around, much like people with peanut allergies ask about the presence of peanuts.

Re: Bodega cats of New York

#100

Post by zdp8 »

zdp7 wrote: post #96
kirubakaran wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most humans (and other beings) aren't pregnant or immunocompromised Just because pregnant and immuno-compromised people are in the minority, it's not a big deal?

You don't get toxoplasmosis from touching a cat. You get it from touching cat feces and then ingesting it. The most common avenue of infection (in the US at least) is consuming raw or undercooked meat. Considering when my wife was pregnant, she asked our Doctor about it. His recommendation was she should not be the one to clean the litter box. So yeah, avoid cat feces and if you can't wash your hands. We don't need t…

"We don't need to get rid of cats. Also make sure the meat you eat is cooked properly."

I'd rather not eat cats at all, so cooking them properly doesn't enter into it.

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