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I learned Unity the wrong way

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Re: I learned Unity the wrong way

#91

Post by t-writescode »

coolThingsFirst wrote: post #83

The very first mistake you made was using Unity. Start from scratch. A game loop is really just draw(), update() positions in a loop. Even smaller effects can be done with simple programming. Recently I played around with ChatGPT for some effects for JS game, the results were interesting and very experimental. 3D game is another beast altogether and linear algebra needs to be very solid for that.

> 3D game is another beast altogether and linear algebra needs to be very solid for that.

Or you can use an engine, like Unity.

Edit: you responded and then deleted a post about "games that don't look like Unity on Unity". Ignoring that the looks of a game usually matter less in the long run than gameplay, a very, very short search shows that Escape from Tarkov[0] is made in Unity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_from_Tarkov

Re: I learned Unity the wrong way

#92

Post by [deleted] »

wewtyflakes wrote: post #89
vivzkestrel wrote: post #88

- as a non gamedev i keep asking this question since i dont get a satisfactory answer like ever - if i want to make a 3d third person tactical shooter from scratch) without unreal, unity, godot etc what is the exact flow - i know c++ and have a decade of programming experience. i am revising 3d math from that awesome 3d math primer book - what are the steps? if you asked me to write a program to take a postgres backu…

There is an ocean between the level of complexities of the examples you gave. For the database side, it would be the equivalent of "write postgres from scratch", not "how do I take a postgres backup", assuming you want to do no frameworks at all (like you qualified for the game side).

[deleted]

Re: I learned Unity the wrong way

#93

Post by num42 »

The most enlightening part of learning is finding our own unknown unknowns.

For me it is different, making a best piano in the world is different from composing like Beethoven. Well what I am saying, learning unity is doable but what you do with it is most important. Back then I used to think learning photoshop, paint tools makes me artist, but I have realised being artist is actually faraway being from tool operator.

Re: I learned Unity the wrong way

#94

Post by vivzkestrel »

gregsadetsky wrote: post #90
vivzkestrel wrote: post #88

- as a non gamedev i keep asking this question since i dont get a satisfactory answer like ever - if i want to make a 3d third person tactical shooter from scratch) without unreal, unity, godot etc what is the exact flow - i know c++ and have a decade of programming experience. i am revising 3d math from that awesome 3d math primer book - what are the steps? if you asked me to write a program to take a postgres backu…

Are you interested in the graphics (how to render 3d, opengl/directx, shaders etc), in the “game engine” aspect (all of the various parts of a game coming together), game design, networking, or something else? All of it? As people used to say on stack overflow - what have you tried so far? Also - this might be a good starting point: https://www.gameenginebook.com/

- i have started brushing my c++ and learning 3d math for now

- i am interested to know for starters what does the 10000 ft landscape look like

- what are the major steps involved?

- what have I tried? I spent a lot of time looking into what kind of libraries exist. Rust has something called bevy which I would not touch given it is new and I dont want to work with double unknowns

- C++ has a library called raylib that seems to have a lot of functions for basic stuff.

- There seems to be a library called jolt which claims to handle physics well

- how is rendering / graphics pipeline stuff handled in c++. what libraries do we have for loading models, working with shaders, handling networking for gaming etc?

- the thing is i need to get a complete picture inside my head of how a 3d game is put together like how this https://visualrambling.space/neural-network/ gives you the picture you need to understand how a neural network works

Re: I learned Unity the wrong way

#95

Post by xandrius »

vivzkestrel wrote: post #88

- as a non gamedev i keep asking this question since i dont get a satisfactory answer like ever - if i want to make a 3d third person tactical shooter from scratch) without unreal, unity, godot etc what is the exact flow - i know c++ and have a decade of programming experience. i am revising 3d math from that awesome 3d math primer book - what are the steps? if you asked me to write a program to take a postgres backu…

Sure, here are the "steps" for creating that from scratch:

1. Setup lighting 2. Create a mesh importer system 3. Create an animation runner system 4. Create your 3D models + all animations needed (walk forward, crouch, run, jump, death, etc.) 5. Setup a camera system for following your character 6. Setup a physics engine for your character 7. Add support for collisions and high speed elements (i.e. Bullets) 8. Setup an AI system 9. Setup a particle system 10. Setup a player input system 11. Setup a save/load system

Follow those and you should be able to get from 0 to hero in a few years. Or you can use an engine and do it in a weekend.

I might have missed a step or twenty but people who want to avoid engines usually end up spending most of their time building an engine, and basically re-doing all things engines already provide.

And yes, making a postgres backup is orders of magnitude easier than making "just" a game, even the most basic one.

Re: I learned Unity the wrong way

#96

Post by [deleted] »

t-writescode wrote: post #91
coolThingsFirst wrote: post #83

The very first mistake you made was using Unity. Start from scratch. A game loop is really just draw(), update() positions in a loop. Even smaller effects can be done with simple programming. Recently I played around with ChatGPT for some effects for JS game, the results were interesting and very experimental. 3D game is another beast altogether and linear algebra needs to be very solid for that.

> 3D game is another beast altogether and linear algebra needs to be very solid for that. Or you can use an engine, like Unity. Edit: you responded and then deleted a post about "games that don't look like Unity on Unity". Ignoring that the looks of a game usually matter less in the long run than gameplay, a very, very short search shows that Escape from Tarkov[0] is made in Unity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escap…

[deleted]

Re: I learned Unity the wrong way

#98

Post by coolThingsFirst »

t-writescode wrote: post #91
coolThingsFirst wrote: post #83

The very first mistake you made was using Unity. Start from scratch. A game loop is really just draw(), update() positions in a loop. Even smaller effects can be done with simple programming. Recently I played around with ChatGPT for some effects for JS game, the results were interesting and very experimental. 3D game is another beast altogether and linear algebra needs to be very solid for that.

> 3D game is another beast altogether and linear algebra needs to be very solid for that. Or you can use an engine, like Unity. Edit: you responded and then deleted a post about "games that don't look like Unity on Unity". Ignoring that the looks of a game usually matter less in the long run than gameplay, a very, very short search shows that Escape from Tarkov[0] is made in Unity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escap…

The reason why I deleted it was because Subnautica one of my favourite games was written in Unity. I never could have guessed.

It seems I've underestimated Unity, thank you for changing my mind!

Re: I learned Unity the wrong way

#99

Post by noisy_boy »

andai wrote: post #8
argee wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth pointing out that: 1. Much of the core lesson in this article has nothing to do with Unity specifically, and applies to self-taught programmers in general; and 2. This person has a vested interest in making you believe learning Unity is especially difficult.

Yeah, the actual point is "For a long time I avoided learning programming and it turns out you do actually need that for a game programmer job." The issue was compounded by the author getting a lot of positive feedback on their game, because people respond to how the game looks, not the code. For the solo indie approach that's not really an issue (many such cases!), but getting a job is a separate beast.

> The issue was compounded by the author getting a lot of positive feedback on their game, because people respond to how the game looks, not the code.

It doesn't even have to look that good. Relying on vapid positivity from Reddit will do that to you.

Re: I learned Unity the wrong way

#100

Post by zem »

lossyalgo wrote: post #54
eterm wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, that's frustrating. But you know what's also frustrating? Code bases which involve multi-step manual steps to build. You should be able to get a working local environment with a single command. You should be able to get a working local build with a single build command. If you have depedent projects, they should either be in a monorepo, or delivered through a packaging system so they are not depend on the speci…

I agree, and there are other fun gotchas that even more frustrating and convoluted. But everything is thoroughly documented and I even explicitly pointed out those potential issues before I gave them the assignment. When the errors first occurred, I pointed out the fix, which was ignored, multiple times. Should it be that difficult to rename a couple folders? The compiler errors were fairly easy to understand: can't…

at the very least there's no excuse for not having a shell script to check everything out in the right places! I've been the new person in teams with this sort of fragile setup and it's no fun whatsoever.
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