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Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

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Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#91

Post by Vinnl »

swiftcoder wrote: post #27
input_sh wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see them begging anywhere, I only see someone sharing a link to their donate page. For what it's worth because legal names are confusingly similar, this is a legal subsidiary of Mozilla that is specific to Thunderbird, as in if you give it money it goes straight into Thunderbird. Many people here pretend to wish to be able to give money directly to Firefox, yet when they can do that for Thunderbird, people he…

> For what it's worth because legal names are confusingly similar, this is a legal subsidiary of Mozilla that is specific to Thunderbird Right, I get that, but why is it for-profit ? Fund raising is hard enough for nonprofits, convincing people to donate their hard-earned cash to a for-profit is on a whole different level.

One thing that's important to note (which holds for the Mozilla Corporation too) is that the for-profit thing is a legal status, but the Foundation (an official non-profit) is the only shareholder, i.e. the only entity that "profit" can flow to. So you're not lining some billionaire's pockets.

(Though of course, employees of either entity can be paid whatever, which also holds for every other non-profit.)

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#92

Post by nottorp »

preinheimer wrote: post #76
nottorp wrote: post #31

Is that a Stripe screen? Set up american style to reduce friction, not supporting 3d secure, which means european credit cards will deny by default?

Stripe supports 3d secure and has for years. https://stripe.com/en-ca/guides/3d-secure-2

Heh. No it doesn't because they require their users to treat it manually and as a consequence a lot of americans don't.

Example 1 that is definitely going through Stripe: Ars Technica.

Example 2 that I don't know what is going through: Asimov's Magazine.

In the race for no friction, they add friction for EU users.

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#93

Post by Vinnl »

antisol wrote: post #69
shakna wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla tried to kill Thunderbird in 2020. They've been talking about not sponsoring it all since 2015. They might have the money, but they don't really seem to want anything to do with the project.

Good! I hope they do "kill it off" so that someone who isn't totally incompetent can fork it and take it over.

That's basically how you could describe what happened. Those competent people are using Mozilla's infrastructure and trademarks, but otherwise running on donations.

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#94

Post by throwaway667555 »

Vinnl wrote: post #83
Levitating wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thunderbird seems to be somehow apart from Mozilla now I don't think that's the case. "Thunderbird is part of MZLA Technologies Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of Mozilla Foundation." Thunderbirds sourcecode is literally part of the same mercury codebase as Firefox. Thunderbird does have a very small team, and I think everyone that uses it should considering donating.

Yeah it's all a bit complex (just like the US tax code, I suppose). MZLA (which makes Thunderbird) is a subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation. The Mozilla Corporation (which makes Firefox) is also a subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation. In practice, this means that the people running Firefox day-to-day aren't the people running Thunderbird day-to-day, although of course they do talk, and technology choices made in Fir…

Companies will often state a subsidiary is wholly owned by the ultimate parent regardless of which tier the subsidiary is at. The Thunderbird subsidiary could be under the Firefox subsidiary and the statement would still be true.

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#95

Post by antisol »

Vinnl wrote: post #83
Levitating wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thunderbird seems to be somehow apart from Mozilla now I don't think that's the case. "Thunderbird is part of MZLA Technologies Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of Mozilla Foundation." Thunderbirds sourcecode is literally part of the same mercury codebase as Firefox. Thunderbird does have a very small team, and I think everyone that uses it should considering donating.

Yeah it's all a bit complex (just like the US tax code, I suppose). MZLA (which makes Thunderbird) is a subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation. The Mozilla Corporation (which makes Firefox) is also a subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation. In practice, this means that the people running Firefox day-to-day aren't the people running Thunderbird day-to-day, although of course they do talk, and technology choices made in Fir…

I agree that it should be "affect". Affect doesn't look wrong to me:

  and technology choices made in Firefox can and do affect Thunderbird, just like they effect e.g. Zen Browser or Tor Browser.
I'm no expert on the rules of english, but I think maybe it would be slightly more gramatically correct to say that "choices made in Firefox can and do have an effect on Thunderbird". I would probably have phrased it like that. Maybe that's why it looks wrong to you?

English is a bit of a bastard language IIUC, and so we accept the way you've phrased it too, but in that case it should be "affect".

I hope this helps rather than making things more confusing! ;)

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#97

Post by jorvi »

copperx wrote: post #64
mrks_hy wrote: post #38

I really like Thunderbird, it's the only truly cross-platform mail app, with K9 also now on Android. Works perfect, I even migrated my Windows install to Linux just by copying the data folder, absolutely seamless. Not sure why people are hating on it so much here. Point to an alternative with the same features?

people point to the rare bug report that deletes absolutely everything in the account. but at this point, I don't even know if it's true.

I've been hit by that bug, although it only deletes mail AFAIK. There's a separate bug that completely corrupts the mail database on compaction, making Thunderbird lock up including for every future launch.

Its a beautiful open source effort but products that have bugs like that languish for 10-20 years just aren't reliable. I need my mail client to be reliable.

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#98

Post by antisol »

Vinnl wrote: post #93
antisol wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good! I hope they do "kill it off" so that someone who isn't totally incompetent can fork it and take it over.

That's basically how you could describe what happened. Those competent people are using Mozilla's infrastructure and trademarks, but otherwise running on donations.

Then how come everything they've done in the last 10 years has been garbage?

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#99

Post by sylens »

muhehe wrote: post #78

Thunderbird will provider their PRO services using stalw.art as email backend. I was considering using it too to replace really old mail system in our company. It looked like modern stack using jmap, but it seems thunderbird actually does not support jmap? Or is it only in their PRO extension? Does it mean I cannot use this unless it is with their services? I'm confused. Of course there is still IMAP, but I hoped for…

Curiously, JMAP is on the roadmap for the iOS client, but I don't see it in the desktop client roadmap https://developer.thunderbird.net/planning/roadmap. But seeing as how it will power their Thundermail service, I would assume all clients would need the support

Re: Help Keep Thunderbird Alive

#100

Post by wccrawford »

Vinnl wrote: post #83
Levitating wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thunderbird seems to be somehow apart from Mozilla now I don't think that's the case. "Thunderbird is part of MZLA Technologies Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of Mozilla Foundation." Thunderbirds sourcecode is literally part of the same mercury codebase as Firefox. Thunderbird does have a very small team, and I think everyone that uses it should considering donating.

Yeah it's all a bit complex (just like the US tax code, I suppose). MZLA (which makes Thunderbird) is a subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation. The Mozilla Corporation (which makes Firefox) is also a subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation. In practice, this means that the people running Firefox day-to-day aren't the people running Thunderbird day-to-day, although of course they do talk, and technology choices made in Fir…

"Effect" as a verb means to bring about, or to bring it into existence. "Affect" means to have influence on them.

It's definitely wrong in that paragraph.

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