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Peptides: where to begin?

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Re: Peptides: where to begin?

#91

Post by Ucalegon »

refurb wrote: post #16
Bender wrote: post #3

It seems we are treating Peptides like drugs here. It's my opinion that amino acids regardless of how they are chained do not belong under and stricter regulation than food given I eat peptides every day from my food. Then again I do not believe in the concept of prescription drugs. Everything with a NDC code should be at the grocery store and I should be able to stock up on it without permission especially given how…

> It seems we are treating Peptides like drugs here That’s exactly what some biological drugs are too - peptides! And peptides are just short chains of amino acids. Almost all the other biological drugs are just longer chains of amino acids - antibodies, enzymes, antigens, some hormones, and others. Derek is right that the safety risks are exponentially higher when you inject peptides - you basically skip a bunch of…

>As a former R&D scientist there is no way I’d inject any peptide that hasn’t at least gone through a phase 1 safety study in humans. Otherwise you have no idea what it could be doing to your body.

A lot of people do not understand the trial system or the value of Phase 0/1 tests when it comes to the substances that they put into their body. And thanks to the influencer/grifter/biohacker ecosystem that exists, more people would put their trust in accidental evidence, from people who's incentive it is to make money off of them, while complaining about the pharmaceutical industry operates off of a profit motive.

Re: Peptides: where to begin?

#92

Post by phil21 »

orf wrote: post #17
diath wrote: post #15

> My patient is refusing a drug studied in 170,000 people because of side effects that a 124,000-person analysis just confirmed do not exist — while injecting a compound studied in 14 humans, from unregulated sources, based on the recommendation of someone who profits from selling it. She’s probably not the only one. And those using it believe they are “doing their own research.” Ok, and? At worst you waste a couple…

You know dozens of people from a single place that have chronic tendon/joint issues?

I don't doubt it. You make casual friends sometimes at certain gyms, especially if any sort of sports are involved like tennis or even group classes.

I am a super introvert and know at least half a dozen folks with such issues, more if you include my close friend group.

Any place that has a lot of physically active people stressing their limits a bit is going to have a lot of injured folks over a decent period of time. And of course it gets talked about quite a lot, since it limits performance and ability.

My trainer knows I have a chronic shoulder issue, and an adductor issue at the moment I'm working through that we need to avoid stressing too much. The few other folks who tend to work out around my schedule know of this, and I know of theirs.

Not very uncommon really.

Re: Peptides: where to begin?

#93

Post by rootusrootus »

Simulacra wrote: post #23
cwmoore wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When medicine ignores nutrition entirely, and nutrient supplements are still complete unknowns, you have to wonder who the FDA is working for.

But there's a core problem with this, in many states doctors are legally forbidden to give nutrition advice. The academy of nutrition and dietetics has worked very hard to make it so that only dietitians can provide nutrition advice. Take Ohio for example, a medical doctor in Ohio is legally forbidden and actually in jeopardy of losing their license and going to jail if they were to provide nutrition advice without a…

Aren't doctors actually exempted specifically from such regulations in almost all states? AFAIK they can actually give nutritional advice legally in nearly every jurisdiction in the US.

Re: Peptides: where to begin?

#94

Post by tzs »

Simulacra wrote: post #23
cwmoore wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When medicine ignores nutrition entirely, and nutrient supplements are still complete unknowns, you have to wonder who the FDA is working for.

But there's a core problem with this, in many states doctors are legally forbidden to give nutrition advice. The academy of nutrition and dietetics has worked very hard to make it so that only dietitians can provide nutrition advice. Take Ohio for example, a medical doctor in Ohio is legally forbidden and actually in jeopardy of losing their license and going to jail if they were to provide nutrition advice without a…

> Dietitians are not doctors

And doctors are not dietitians.

Doctors in the US receive an average of under 20 hours of training in nutrition over four years of medical school. What little they do receive is often focused on nutrient deficiencies rather than on meal planning for health and chronic disease prevention. Less than 15% of residency programs include anything on nutrition.

To become a registered dietician requires at least a Master's degree in dietetics or nutrition or a related field, and at least 1000 hours of supervised internships.

PS: before any Europeans hold this up as an example of the poor US health care system, doctors in Europe average 24 hours of nutrition training.

Re: Peptides: where to begin?

#95

Post by kube-system »

tptacek wrote: post #88
kube-system wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pseudoephedrine, of course, isn't BTC because it's dangerous to take or complicated to dose. It's there because of the war on drugs. But I do agree that not all drugs are regulated appropriately. Marijuana also comes to mind. I do think GLP-1s are just about right. It is appropriate to take them under personalized professional guidance.

Right, and I actually see the logic of that (unlike virtually everyone else on HN, and let's not rekindle that debate; the search bar avails). The point is you don't need a prescription to get it. People might be better off if GLP1s were also BTC. Hard to say! Certainly you can abuse a GLP1 and get yourself very sick, or not abuse it and still end up with pancreatitis. But smoking and alcohol presumably cause way mor…

There used to be prescriptions for alcohol products and cigarettes have been sold as medical products -- the reason we accept them in society today is not because we think they have relative less risk to other things, but that their acceptance as recreational vices outweighs the harm that we know they cause.

Re: Peptides: where to begin?

#96

Post by rootusrootus »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #90
rootusrootus wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, most everyone I know who is buying on the gray market considers vendor tests to be minimally required, but still insufficient -- there is no assurance they tested the product they shipped to you. Plan on testing it yourself. I'm sure some people do trust nexaph enough, though, to not worry so much. Whether that trust is well placed, that is a separate discussion.

With most of these you can really tell if they work or not and there is a pretty predicable dose dependent reaction profile. With slow meds like semaglutide you'd maybe not notice it in the first week but you will by week 3. I had mine tested but if that wasn't available I probably would have considered the anecdotal evidence to be sufficient. It appears that most of the scamming is just people taking the money and n…

The most dangerous failures I've seen have been sending the wrong peptide. 15 mg of tirzepatide and 15 mg of semaglutide is a very different experience.

After nearly getting hosed in a group buy (I did get refunded, but that is far from a guarantee) because of a product mismatch, I decided to just pay for nexaph. Love him or hate him, his popularity relies on his reputation and he has been more careful than most suppliers to cultivate it with more extensive testing and quality control.

Re: Peptides: where to begin?

#97

Post by phil21 »

kube-system wrote: post #75
phil21 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The prescription hurdle is absolutely necessary You're totally missing the point thought. The prescription hurdle effectively does not exist. It's just a paywall. You pay your $100, get a 3 minute call with a NP/PA/whomever, and basically the robot writes you a prescription for whatever you want. The point is you pay and you get the prescription. Patient safety has nothing to do with anything.

It's cheaper for most people to get the prescription written at a PCP. The advantage to a telehealth is not getting the prescription written -- it's that they'll fill it for cheap through a tiny compounding pharmacy that is making it, technically illegally, but are small enough to be off the FDAs enforcement radar for the moment.

I have used both my PCP and telehealth for prescription writing, never once have I used a compounding pharmacy.

It's slightly cheaper for me to use telehealth vs. billing through my insurance. The downside is it doesn't go towards my deductible of course.

The stuff you are describing are entire supply chains of a sort where you want a GLP-1 or perhaps a few other things like TRT. Those you are signing up for the drug itself, which happens to include the prescription part with it.

Telehealth can be used for any old medication you want. It removes the permission slip part of the process and replaces it with a payment gateway. If you have $75-150 you can just click some buttons and have a prescription for nearly anything you want at most a day later. This includes antibiotics, ADHD meds (getting harder on these), certain benzos, etc.

HIMS/HERS/etc. and their smaller ilk are super popular, but they are the tip of the iceberg.

Telehealth providers can certainly work with compounding pharmacies but not necessarily. If you are looking to get a prescription for Diazapam you are going to be getting that sent to your local Walgreens or whatnot.

Re: Peptides: where to begin?

#98

Post by jwpapi »

tbojanin wrote: post #21

I tried retatrutide for 10 weeks, here are my results: Before: 5'7, ~182lb Bench 1rm: 315 Squat: 5x10 225 Deadlift: 5x5 315 After: same height lol, 154lb Bench 1rm: 285 Squat: 5x10 205 Deadlift: 5x5 275 Suffered some anhedonia towards the end but that went away ~1wk after stopping. Overall pretty good, not any side effects. Definitely fixed my food craving problem. I didn't have a high intake of protein during the 10…

solid bench brother

Re: Peptides: where to begin?

#99

Post by rootusrootus »

tptacek wrote: post #88
kube-system wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pseudoephedrine, of course, isn't BTC because it's dangerous to take or complicated to dose. It's there because of the war on drugs. But I do agree that not all drugs are regulated appropriately. Marijuana also comes to mind. I do think GLP-1s are just about right. It is appropriate to take them under personalized professional guidance.

Right, and I actually see the logic of that (unlike virtually everyone else on HN, and let's not rekindle that debate; the search bar avails). The point is you don't need a prescription to get it. People might be better off if GLP1s were also BTC. Hard to say! Certainly you can abuse a GLP1 and get yourself very sick, or not abuse it and still end up with pancreatitis. But smoking and alcohol presumably cause way mor…

> smoking and alcohol presumably cause way more cases of pancreatitis

Indeed. In fact, I think just recently there were updated studies for at least one of the popular GLP1s that disclaimed entirely a link to pancreatitis.

Re: Peptides: where to begin?

#100

Post by LMYahooTFY »

orf wrote: post #17
diath wrote: post #15

> My patient is refusing a drug studied in 170,000 people because of side effects that a 124,000-person analysis just confirmed do not exist — while injecting a compound studied in 14 humans, from unregulated sources, based on the recommendation of someone who profits from selling it. She’s probably not the only one. And those using it believe they are “doing their own research.” Ok, and? At worst you waste a couple…

You know dozens of people from a single place that have chronic tendon/joint issues?

It's often part of the life if you're lifting competitively.
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