Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What being ripped off taught me

belief.horse

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 247 posts

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#91

Post by noident »

notquitebuddy wrote: post #73
freediddy wrote: post #63

When you walk into a shitshow like this, the first thing you do is secure your payments. Anyone who is in such bad shape like how OP described it means that they are desperate, and desperate people will do and say anything to get help. It is most likely going to not pay anyone so you need to make sure you're paid above and beyond anything else otherwise walk.

You forgot the middleground where there are thousands of laid off people who can do your exact job and undercut you etc. These founders hire/fire through hundreds of us, they don't give a shit. If you say 1 thing they don't like they go to the next.

How many of those people have experience with augmented reality? Probably not that many.

$35k seems pretty low for this job. Hindsight is 20/20 of course.

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#92

Post by bluGill »

DataDaoDe wrote: post #49
wewewedxfgdf wrote: post #11

Be paid or don't work. I am so deadly serious - do not continue working if your invoices are late. You don't have to be a jerk about it, just explain to your primary contact that you need to be paid and you pick up tools again when the money has arrived. BUT it is on YOU to properly negotiate reasonable payment terms. And if you don;t know or don't trust the client then require payment in advance until a stronger com…

Sadly this is true and lesson anyone who has worked freelance has probably learned - either that or I'd wager they no longer do freelance. Its easy to say don't be afraid to lose business, but when you're starting out, the economy is rough or all you have are the one or two clients, that's a different matter entirely. One thing I've learned is that you always have to do the leg work, you can't assume someone will do…

There are also bad suppliers who don't do their leg work. I've "fired" some companies who did great work for me because they couldn't be bothered to send a bill - I know I owe someone some money, but I don't know how much as despite begging they won't tell me how much or where to send it (I only have a phone number) - this bill could get larger, and they can come after me at any time for it...

Please don't be them. If you do good work make sure that you get your bills sent on time.

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#94

Post by veunes »

wewewedxfgdf wrote: post #11

Be paid or don't work. I am so deadly serious - do not continue working if your invoices are late. You don't have to be a jerk about it, just explain to your primary contact that you need to be paid and you pick up tools again when the money has arrived. BUT it is on YOU to properly negotiate reasonable payment terms. And if you don;t know or don't trust the client then require payment in advance until a stronger com…

This is all correct in principle, but in practice it's a lot messier

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#95

Post by bena »

jfrbfbreudh wrote: post #34

No longer a contractor but I used to offer a 10-15% discount for paying upfront. Almost every client took this deal. Earned a little less but never lost sleep over payments.

Why not make your rate 15% higher than your desired rate?

That way your “discounted” rate is the rate they should have paid and they feel like they got a deal.

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#96

Post by notnaut »

veunes wrote: post #94
wewewedxfgdf wrote: post #11

Be paid or don't work. I am so deadly serious - do not continue working if your invoices are late. You don't have to be a jerk about it, just explain to your primary contact that you need to be paid and you pick up tools again when the money has arrived. BUT it is on YOU to properly negotiate reasonable payment terms. And if you don;t know or don't trust the client then require payment in advance until a stronger com…

This is all correct in principle, but in practice it's a lot messier

I can imagine the type of work you do heavily influences the chance of begin paid during/before work finishes too…

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#97

Post by veunes »

eckesicle wrote: post #21

We’ve also learned this lesson the hard way. These are now the clauses we require in every project we do: - Payment is due X days after receipt of invoice, or immediately after the consultant has addressed any quality issues, whichever is sooner - Late payment shall incur interest at 8% above the BoE base rate and a late fee of 100 GBP as per the UK Late Payment Legislation. Partial payments on invoices shall apply t…

I think the hidden advantage here isn't even enforcement, it's filtering

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#98

Post by veunes »

ng12 wrote: post #54

One thing I learned from consulting is if you position yourself as the "fix your mess" guy you have to be very defensive. Ask for more up-front, and bail at the first sign of underpayment. Be pleasantly surprised when a poorly run project is being run by nice, honest people. Prep for the opposite.

You're not just delivering expertise, you're stepping into a situation where incentives are already misaligned, expectations are fuzzy, and there's often a cashflow problem hiding somewhere

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#99

Post by doctorhandshake »

deaddodo wrote: post #89
b8 wrote: post #76

There's not any incentives to pay you when they're in China and there's no legal recourse from the US. Even in the US suing is often times not worth it economically and getting someone to pay after a win is painful too if they don't just file bankruptcy. Escrow or upfront only is the best way to go.

The company was California-based, they were offering services in China. At least, that was my read. The contractor was also in California. Honestly, this seems to be bad advice from their recovery services. Suing is 100% recommended here. There are plenty of lawyers that will work on a pro rata basis for account recovery in California. Sure, you lose a portion of your 35k; but you get more than you would have letting…

Not saying I know better but this contradicts what I heard from multiple collections companies with in-house legal - they all said suing would not be worth the ~$2,500 upfront fees and that the debtor would just vanish. The debt still exists so I'd love to think otherwise! Feel free to HMU if you have a specific lawyer/practice in mind ;

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#100

Post by bena »

999900000999 wrote: post #87

Back in my younger days I found a bunch of liberals who were claiming to run a software company. They were really into the social justice BS. After about a month of employment, I was told I was being rude to ask for payment. Apparently they neglected to tell me that they actually only pay their employees 60 to 70 days after they start. Of course the first red flag was them doing the 1099 dance for slightly above mini…

You realize that your anecdote here is itself virtue signaling, right?

Because, I’m sure multiple people here could tell similar stories with the political leanings of the groups involved reversed.

Post reply on HN