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Iran strikes leave Amazon availability zones "hard down" in Bahrain and Dubai

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Re: Iran strikes leave Amazon availability zones "hard down" in Bahrain and Dubai

#91

Post by gmerc »

nostrademons wrote: post #20
xoa wrote: post #7

This may have been long discussed, but I feel like this war is the first time I've really thought hard about how big a target data centers would be in any sort of modern peer war and how that's an entirely new thing since the last time it was really on the radar (end of CW) right? We've built trillions and trillions of dollars in infrastructure in the peace time since, and it seems fairly concentrated. AWS is amongst…

In any significant war the Internet is going to go down. That's what has happened empirically in countries undergoing significant wars or social unrest, like Russia, Iran, Yemen, Ethiopia, Syria, Myanmar, and Afghanistan. While IP packet routing itself may have been designed to survive a nuclear war, there have been many centralized systems built on top of it (DNS? Edge caching? Cloudflare? Big Tech) that are essenti…

Which is why bitcoin was always a ready really dumb idea as “end times hedge”

Re: Iran strikes leave Amazon availability zones "hard down" in Bahrain and Dubai

#92

Post by jurgenburgen »

sfifs wrote: post #64
ramshanker wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building blast resistant is a common practices for Refinery control rooms. The same methodologies can be employed for data centers as well. 1 blast can be expensively guarded againt. However designing anything above ground for sustained barges is practically/commercially prohibitive. Underground is only option. PS: Civil Engineer. Designed few of those Gas explosion resistant control rooms.

Wouldn't it me much more effective and efficient to have a mechanism to simply not pick leaders who choose war?

Seems to be really fucking difficult if the previous US election is any indication. May as well build all our infrastructure underground.

Re: Iran strikes leave Amazon availability zones "hard down" in Bahrain and Dubai

#93

Post by znpy »

The big security mantra from aws has always been that they deal with the security of the cloud and you/we deal with the security in the cloud.

I wonder if this will translate to amazon implementing para-militar security of the cloud (eg: drones to defend from drone attacks).

My intuition suggests me that:

- Bezos would have absolutely considered this, like seriously considered - the current ceo likely won’t

Btw the writing has been on the proverbial wall for some time, amazon is in their day-2 era.

Re: Iran strikes leave Amazon availability zones "hard down" in Bahrain and Dubai

#94

Post by sph »

gmerc wrote: post #91
nostrademons wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In any significant war the Internet is going to go down. That's what has happened empirically in countries undergoing significant wars or social unrest, like Russia, Iran, Yemen, Ethiopia, Syria, Myanmar, and Afghanistan. While IP packet routing itself may have been designed to survive a nuclear war, there have been many centralized systems built on top of it (DNS? Edge caching? Cloudflare? Big Tech) that are essenti…

Which is why bitcoin was always a ready really dumb idea as “end times hedge”

In the "end times" where computers stop working and we don't even have electricity, your dollars in your digital bank account will be equally useless, and dollar banknotes will be used as fire starter.

Bitcoin was never designed as a post-collapse currency.

Re: Iran strikes leave Amazon availability zones "hard down" in Bahrain and Dubai

#95

Post by whiplash451 »

xoa wrote: post #7

This may have been long discussed, but I feel like this war is the first time I've really thought hard about how big a target data centers would be in any sort of modern peer war and how that's an entirely new thing since the last time it was really on the radar (end of CW) right? We've built trillions and trillions of dollars in infrastructure in the peace time since, and it seems fairly concentrated. AWS is amongst…

> Nobody even directly dies

People almost directly start dying if data centers go down.

Not in the minutes, but within days definitely

Re: Iran strikes leave Amazon availability zones "hard down" in Bahrain and Dubai

#96

Post by roryirvine »

yyyk wrote: post #36
xoa wrote: post #7

This may have been long discussed, but I feel like this war is the first time I've really thought hard about how big a target data centers would be in any sort of modern peer war and how that's an entirely new thing since the last time it was really on the radar (end of CW) right? We've built trillions and trillions of dollars in infrastructure in the peace time since, and it seems fairly concentrated. AWS is amongst…

There are ways to shield data centers if one is serious about it... e.g. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/oracle-opens-first...

Oracle are actually subletting part of Bynet's new-ish Har Hotzvim facility which has 2,400 racks but is probably power-constrained - I believe it had 16 MW when it went live, with passive provision for doubling that. Even if it's since been upgraded, that's still only 13 kW per rack which is pretty stingy these days.

As a very rough rule of thumb building down is about 4x more expensive than building up. So probably worth doing if you're Shin Bet (who I believe also have space in the same dc), but for the likes of Oracle it's only going to be used to serve clients with specific security requirements. Think of it as a halo project - more of a marketing exercise than something that's actually going to be used by the average customer.

The same goes for datacentres hosted in cold war bunkers etc - they always end up being too constrained in one way or another to be useful. The big facilities end up being built above ground and rely on geographic redundancy rather than trying to make themselves (literally) bomb-proof.

Re: Iran strikes leave Amazon availability zones "hard down" in Bahrain and Dubai

#97

Post by gmerc »

sph wrote: post #94
gmerc wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why bitcoin was always a ready really dumb idea as “end times hedge”

In the "end times" where computers stop working and we don't even have electricity, your dollars in your digital bank account will be equally useless, and dollar banknotes will be used as fire starter. Bitcoin was never designed as a post-collapse currency.

Dollars work without electricity. Gold works. Bottlecaps work.

Re: Iran strikes leave Amazon availability zones "hard down" in Bahrain and Dubai

#98

Post by ghywertelling »

pseudohadamard wrote: post #87
UncleOxidant wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both seem like easy targets. Hitting the datacenters themselves could results in more permanent damage.

No, taking out the transformers, which can have lead times of three to five years, will result in the most long-term damage. You can't just pull one out of storage and drop it into place.

How about use drone submarines to cut optic fibre undersea cables?

Re: Iran strikes leave Amazon availability zones "hard down" in Bahrain and Dubai

#99

Post by ghywertelling »

mooreds wrote: post #14
xoa wrote: post #7

This may have been long discussed, but I feel like this war is the first time I've really thought hard about how big a target data centers would be in any sort of modern peer war and how that's an entirely new thing since the last time it was really on the radar (end of CW) right? We've built trillions and trillions of dollars in infrastructure in the peace time since, and it seems fairly concentrated. AWS is amongst…

Don't forget underseas cables: https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

How about using drone submarines to cut optic fibre undersea cables? Can geolocation coordinates be beamed to submarines deep under water?

Re: Iran strikes leave Amazon availability zones "hard down" in Bahrain and Dubai

#100

Post by tyleo »

gmerc wrote: post #97
sph wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the "end times" where computers stop working and we don't even have electricity, your dollars in your digital bank account will be equally useless, and dollar banknotes will be used as fire starter. Bitcoin was never designed as a post-collapse currency.

Dollars work without electricity. Gold works. Bottlecaps work.

One of my friends speculated that bullets will be a great currency at the end of the world.
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