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Ukrainian drone holds position for 6 weeks

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Re: Ukrainian drone holds position for 6 weeks

#91

Post by aogaili »

alephnerd wrote: post #85
aogaili wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but what you are missing the cost of total elimination of the other side. For example, in Iraq, Saddam was able to use chemical weapons and wipe out the resistance, this is no longer an accepted solution by majority of people on earth. So there is no real way to actually win a war. If you can't kill or enslave the other population, and the world is not accepting refugees, if you hit one economy completely you mi…

> You are left with the only option of nulling the other's economy down How do you (detest this phrasing, it very glib) null the other side? Most weapon systems aren't developed in entirely separate supply chains - they use off-the-shelf components that are available for commercial usecases as well. To successfully take out an opponents operational capacity when they are using dual use technology means the barrier be…

And what is your point? you just re-enforced my main assertion?

Re: Ukrainian drone holds position for 6 weeks

#92

Post by aogaili »

worik wrote: post #82
aogaili wrote: post #52

At this point might as well just play strategy video game and call it a day? Both sides staring at screens, controlling drones fighting each other.. why use physical drones at all? abstract it away and play video game? In the near future, war might be about who can build faster/better and hit the other economy more effectively, and those who can't produce any more drones, lose. If you think about, we moved human one-…

> At this point might as well just play strategy video game and call it a day? No. Young men being slaughtered in their hundreds of thousands. Not a game

I know it is not.

I'm just saying in the future if all became drones war and we disallow genocide, then what do you think will happen?

Of course I acknowledge real life is lost right now, all I'm saying give politicians a video game to play instead of having drone wars.

Would you rather have politicians commit genocides and destroy real economics or play drone like video games? which side are you with?

Re: Ukrainian drone holds position for 6 weeks

#93

Post by gambiting »

aogaili wrote: post #87
gambiting wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What made you come to that conclusion?

You either agree or disagree with the idea of genocide. And if you disagree with idea of genocide, then this is becoming closer to video games as more drones are deployed which is my thesis. But if you agree with the idea of genocide, then yes, wars can be won by total elimination (or major reduction) in the other people's population and loss of life. So do you think genocide is acceptable in war or not?

>>So do you think genocide is acceptable in war or not?

Why would downvoting your comment signify supporting genocide though?

Re: Ukrainian drone holds position for 6 weeks

#94

Post by iamnothere »

aogaili wrote: post #78
aogaili wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it not like before. We (as humans) are getting more strict about losing people's life. We don't allow genocide, we don't allow colonization and enslavement, at least the majority of nations agree that this is not acceptable. So it is NOT like before. And the logical conclusion, as those drones get better and more widely adopted, is that war will be nothing more a video game with real economics and supply cha…

[flagged]

I think people are downvoting you because your post displays extreme disconnection from reality.

I will believe that it is possible to “fix” war immediately after we “fix” poverty, extreme inequality, hunger, deaths of despair, and crime, any of which should be immensely easier to solve than war.

There are multiple genocides happening today.

Re: Ukrainian drone holds position for 6 weeks

#95

Post by AngryData »

krunck wrote: post #46

Why is no one using EMP devices against drones? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse#Non-nucl...

Probably because currently they cause more collateral damage than is useful. Your own equipment will be damaged too leaving a bunch of unguided soldiers with just their guns and rations that are still an obstacle an enemy can't walk through, and it will piss off anybody within 1000 miles when you start disrupting their telecommunications with random noise if not cause actual damage. If they are powerful enough you could potentially cause some mistaken nuclear blast warnings too, although perhaps without a gamma ray component it would still be rightfully ignored.

Re: Ukrainian drone holds position for 6 weeks

#96

Post by aogaili »

fred_is_fred wrote: post #66
aogaili wrote: post #52

At this point might as well just play strategy video game and call it a day? Both sides staring at screens, controlling drones fighting each other.. why use physical drones at all? abstract it away and play video game? In the near future, war might be about who can build faster/better and hit the other economy more effectively, and those who can't produce any more drones, lose. If you think about, we moved human one-…

Orignal Star Trek did an episode on this - "A Taste of Armageddon". The war was a video game - fought on a computer. But if the virtual bombs hit your area, you were declared dead and had to a report to a disintegration chamber. If you can get past the dated special effects - the concept is the same.

Found it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8-I9nRAnDk

This is like the future after the scenario I describe happens. But I diff, is that we keep the game, but change the medium. Humans are war oriented by nature, like chimps, but I think as the world becomes more connected, the cost of destroying one place is causing impact on other..yet there is a desire to resolve conflict in violent way.

Re: Ukrainian drone holds position for 6 weeks

#97

Post by Blackthorn »

aogaili wrote: post #68
neonstatic wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> abstract it away and play video game? What happens when one side wins? In the real world, they actually win. In the video game, nothing happens > In the near future, war might be about who can build faster/better and hit the other economy more effectively In other words, in the near future it might work the exact way it has always worked. > they could easily kill the people, but other nations won't allow it, so it…

Yes, but it not like before. We (as humans) are getting more strict about losing people's life. We don't allow genocide, we don't allow colonization and enslavement, at least the majority of nations agree that this is not acceptable. So it is NOT like before. And the logical conclusion, as those drones get better and more widely adopted, is that war will be nothing more a video game with real economics and supply cha…

> We don't allow genocide, we don't allow colonization and enslavement, at least the majority of nations agree that this is not acceptable

Literally all of these things are happening as we type this. What the majority of nations do or do not want is irrelevant.

Re: Ukrainian drone holds position for 6 weeks

#98

Post by aogaili »

xeonmc wrote: post #60
aogaili wrote: post #52

At this point might as well just play strategy video game and call it a day? Both sides staring at screens, controlling drones fighting each other.. why use physical drones at all? abstract it away and play video game? In the near future, war might be about who can build faster/better and hit the other economy more effectively, and those who can't produce any more drones, lose. If you think about, we moved human one-…

So like the old League of Legends lore before their Institute of War retcon?

Yes exactly. Like an arm wrestle, those who can demonstrate they have the better swarms, better AI, better supply chain, better innovation, win the war. And the other nation surrender. There is for resolving extreme national conflicts. If one side decides to go further and use drones to commit a genocide or completely destroy the other side economy/resources. Then other major players will join the game by using more drones and overwhelm the aggressive nation production and end it.

Re: Ukrainian drone holds position for 6 weeks

#99

Post by aogaili »

gambiting wrote: post #93
aogaili wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You either agree or disagree with the idea of genocide. And if you disagree with idea of genocide, then this is becoming closer to video games as more drones are deployed which is my thesis. But if you agree with the idea of genocide, then yes, wars can be won by total elimination (or major reduction) in the other people's population and loss of life. So do you think genocide is acceptable in war or not?

>>So do you think genocide is acceptable in war or not? Why would downvoting your comment signify supporting genocide though?

Well, because they reject the idea of making a war a physical video games of drones, therefore, they would be advocating keeping the current system?

My point was that we are better off with abstracting away the war, so if you downvote that idea, then you want to keep the current system, and to win a war in the current system you need total surrender, which comes at a huge cost of life.

You got it?

Re: Ukrainian drone holds position for 6 weeks

#100

Post by overfeed »

bee_rider wrote: post #38
verdverm wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps in the dead man zone, not sure this would work well where there is civilian population.

I haven’t heard “dead man zone” (although I don’t really engage much with military stuff so maybe it is just an expression I’m not familiar with). I think “no man’s land” is a pretty popular and similar expression. Out of curiosity, did you translate “dead man zone” from another language? I just find it interesting because it seems conceptually similar but much bleaker, so if it comes from, like, French or German or…

> I think “no man’s land” is a pretty popular and similar expression.

No man's land is generic and is used in other non-combat scenarios, it could appear in an HOA pamphlet.

I like "dead man's zone" or "kill zone" as it clearly communicates both the contestation and lethality very clearly.

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