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CEO of largest public hospital says he's ready to replace radiologists with AI

radiologybusiness.com

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Re: CEO of largest public hospital says he's ready to replace radiologists with AI

#91

Post by lapcat »

stvltvs wrote: post #88
lapcat wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I was going to reduce labor costs by +1M/year, I would rather eliminate 1 CEO then 10 radiologists. This is a false dichotomy. Why not both? I think it's a bit strange to hope or assume that an AI CEO would somehow preserve human jobs.

Missing the point. If CEOs realize that they're more replaceable by AI than nurses and medical assistants, for example, then maybe they'll take a more nuanced view of the technology.

No, you're missing the point, because the views of the people to be laid off are irrelevant. Again, the stockholders own the company, not the CEO. If CEOs start chaging their tune on AI as soon as their own jobs are at stake, that would just demonstrate to the stockholders that human CEOs are untrustworthy and need to be replaced.

Before AI came along, CEOs were already arbitrarily laying off workers, to please the stockholders. The stockholders like these cost-cutting measures, and whether the measures make sense is secondary to the CEOs doing what their bosses want. If the stockholders believe that they can cut the CEOs too, they surely will.

Re: CEO of largest public hospital says he's ready to replace radiologists with AI

#92

Post by palmotea »

_dark_matter_ wrote: post #38
ricardobayes wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be frank I'm more concerned about non-litiguous countries here as the potential downsides are much lower to roll-out "AI radiologists". Some of those countries have multi-month or even year-long waitlists for specialist consultations so it might even be more tempting from a healthcare management level.

For folks with long wait times, maybe the advantage of "immediate access to AI radiologist" beats out "wait for human radiologist"? Would be interesting to weigh those harms against each other.

> For folks with long wait times, maybe the advantage of "immediate access to AI radiologist" beats out "wait for human radiologist"? Would be interesting to weigh those harms against each other.

The harm of getting surgery to get tissue removed due to a false positive seems a pretty big.

Re: CEO of largest public hospital says he's ready to replace radiologists with AI

#93

Post by Forgeties79 »

jatora wrote: post #89
Betelbuddy wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone drops very specific percentages about diagnostic accuracy....numbers that, if true, have serious implications for patient outcomes, and your concern is that I did not ask nicely enough for a source? I could not think of a more HN typical response... I did not even call the claim false, even if it almost deserve it...I said, essentially ...let's see the references so we can treat this as fact rather than opini…

[flagged]

> Calm down

You had a point until you did that.

Re: CEO of largest public hospital says he's ready to replace radiologists with AI

#94

Post by thefz »

bradreaves2 wrote: post #17

I figured this was “CEO said a thing” journalism [1], but buried in the last paragraph is a real scorcher: > “Undeniable proof that confidently uninformed hospital administrators are a danger to patients: easily duped by AI companies that are nowhere near capable of providing patient care,” [Radiologist Dr.] Suhail told Radiology Business. “Any attempt to implement AI-only reads would immediately result in patient ha…

Some hospitals having a CEO is an aberration

Re: CEO of largest public hospital says he's ready to replace radiologists with AI

#95

Post by storus »

Betelbuddy wrote: post #90
jatora wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Three comments in... and you still have not said a single word about whether radiologists actually catch 35% of diagnoses. But you have found time to call me passive aggressive, entitled, lazy, and immature. For one sentence. Asking for a source... You are now, multiple comments deep, doing the thing you accuse me of...being more invested in tone than substance. The irony is genuinely impressive at this point.

If you look at early stage diseases it's probably even way less than 35%...

Re: CEO of largest public hospital says he's ready to replace radiologists with AI

#96

Post by storus »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #85
storus wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not saying those are for all diagnoses, but for some tricky yet important ones (i.e. detecting them early might save your life).

You did not give specificity of any kind until now, and now I’m even more curious where these numbers are coming from.

Some data (average radiologist score):

Early-Stage Lung Cancer (via Chest X-ray) 33.3%

Clinical Staging of Stage I Pancreatic Cancer (via CT, MRI, EUS) 21.6%

Breast Cancer (via Mammography in Dense Tissue) 30%

Cuneiform fractures (foot, X-Ray) 0%

Midfoot fractures (general, X-Ray) 12.5%

Cuboid fractures (X-Ray) 14.29%

Navicular fractures (X-Ray) 22.22%

Talus fractures (X-Ray) 21.43%

Individual radiologists often scored 5% in those as well. The skill distribution is brutal.

Re: CEO of largest public hospital says he's ready to replace radiologists with AI

#97

Post by Forgeties79 »

storus wrote: post #96
Forgeties79 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did not give specificity of any kind until now, and now I’m even more curious where these numbers are coming from.

Some data (average radiologist score): Early-Stage Lung Cancer (via Chest X-ray) 33.3% Clinical Staging of Stage I Pancreatic Cancer (via CT, MRI, EUS) 21.6% Breast Cancer (via Mammography in Dense Tissue) 30% Cuneiform fractures (foot, X-Ray) 0% Midfoot fractures (general, X-Ray) 12.5% Cuboid fractures (X-Ray) 14.29% Navicular fractures (X-Ray) 22.22% Talus fractures (X-Ray) 21.43% Individual radiologists often scor…

If your original argument was “it could be useful for more difficult/niche observations” then I think most of us wouldn’t have objected.

I also really don’t understand why you still aren’t sharing any links. Is this all LLM-generated without citations or something? Where are you getting your numbers?

Re: CEO of largest public hospital says he's ready to replace radiologists with AI

#98

Post by insane_dreamer »

squidhunter wrote: post #7

When can we start replacing CEOs with AI?

Be careful what you wish for. An AI CEO is likely to be more ruthless than most human CEOs, with a singular focus on increasing shareholder value at the expense of everything else, without any "messy" human values to get in the way.

(The Mountain In the Sea is a good read that touches on this.)

Re: CEO of largest public hospital says he's ready to replace radiologists with AI

#99

Post by insane_dreamer »

seesthruya wrote: post #28

Here we go again. There's something about radiology that makes it the perfect bait for nerd sniping. I guess it's probably the misunderstanding that it is exclusively pattern recognition. Here are my opinions, after a 20 year career as a diagnostic radiologist, and 45 years as a hobbyist computer programmer 1. There are no products currently on the market that can replace a radiologist. 2. If you can't fully and comp…

this is the key point: it won't save hospitals any money in the long run:

> 5. Based on current RVU compensation models, any cost savings achieved by hospitals replacing radiologists with AI will quickly be lost by reimbursements being adjusted down. There is no way an insurance company will pay the same for an AI interpretation and a human interpretation.

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