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Neanderthals survived on a knife's edge for 350k years

science.org

91–100 of 214 posts

Re: Neanderthals survived on a knife's edge for 350k years

#91
post #61

>somehow Neanderthals managed to survive across most of Eurasia for nearly 400,000 years, longer than modern humans have been on Earth. These narrative simplifications end up just being confusing. Neanderthals from 400kya are often classed as Heidelbergensis. These guys were less Neanderthal-ish and more similar to us... being closer to and less divergent from the sapiens-neanderthal LCA. Neanderthal-Denisovan diverg…

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Re: Neanderthals survived on a knife's edge for 350k years

#92

350,000 years of just chilling, picking berries, you die in identical technological and cultural environment as when you were born. Now we got to be around when God is made in a data center

Nature's finest achievement. A hyper-efficient "mind" built on a pyre of fossil fuels and rare minerals so it can help us burn the rest faster. Surely the Neanderthals stand envious that millions will be able to confide their unemployment woes to ChatGPT after GPS-navigating to the Dollar General in the nearest bleak strip mall in search of affordable goods.

Poetic

Re: Neanderthals survived on a knife's edge for 350k years

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately, the Native Americans did not invent it quickly enough This is false. Most native Americans throughout both continents— especially those in Mesoamerica—were powerful civilisations in their own right with plenty of agricultural history. What finished many of them off was a lack of resistance to smallpox, which was brought over by the first explorers/colonists.

There was a hemorrhagic fever in ~1545 an ~1576 that killed tens of millions of people. This is well-documented. The exact nature of this hemorrhagic fever is a major open question in the history of North America, and the natives attested its existence before the Europeans arrived AFAIK. We know about hantavirus in the southwestern US and Mexico but that seems unlikely to be the source based on its epidemiology. This…

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Re: Neanderthals survived on a knife's edge for 350k years

#94

Perhaps some cultures' stories about "wild men" are about Neanderthals. Maybe Enkidu from the Epic of Gilgamesh was one.

Without being an expert that still seems very unlikely to me.

The epic was written around 2000 BCE which was well over >> 10k years after agriculture and more than 4 times that much after neanderthals died out.

It's possible but much more likely that they refer to something more contemporary. There are always "wild men" around no matter who you ask.

Re: Neanderthals survived on a knife's edge for 350k years

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't imagine having to live with anxiety of just staying alive. Constant diseases, infestations, starvation, animal attacks. You would never feel like you have time to just, be. Instead you're focused on getting your next meal, and finding a place to sleep. It only took a few ice-ages to force us to get smart about how we organize and then here we are.

Welcome to Gaza I guess.

I immediately thought or Iran.

It’s neat what we do to each other…

Re: Neanderthals survived on a knife's edge for 350k years

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately, the Native Americans did not invent it quickly enough This is false. Most native Americans throughout both continents— especially those in Mesoamerica—were powerful civilisations in their own right with plenty of agricultural history. What finished many of them off was a lack of resistance to smallpox, which was brought over by the first explorers/colonists.

In things like the battle of Cajamarca the Incan lost a battle against the Spanish with 8000 warriors against 150. All the 150 survived. Disease was important but there was a large technological and cultural gap too (e.g. the Incan didn't fight at night!).

You're missing a zero. It was EIGHTY thousand, not 8000.

Re: Neanderthals survived on a knife's edge for 350k years

#98
post #11
post #7

It's wild to think how long very human-like beings and modern humans existed before the technological revolution really took off. Hundreds of thousands of years of existing on the technological level of stone tools, spears, cloth made out of hides, and fire. Then at some unknown point probably in the last 100,000 years, the bow and arrow. Then about 12,000 years ago, the agricultural revolution, which probably unlock…

> Then about 12,000 years ago, the agricultural revolution, which probably unlocked much of the subsequent technological progress by enabling more food security and larger populations. It definitely did. Also note that agriculture was invented in multiple places over time. Unfortunately, the Native Americans did not invent it quickly enough, so they had far less time for technological development before Europeans arr…

The Americas were always going to be behind Euro Asia due to the shape of the continents. Going North-South you get big changes in climate and thus agricultural techniques and plants. Civilizations in the Americas could have spent thousands of years in a grow and bust cycle and never reach a similar level of development as the old continent.

Re: Neanderthals survived on a knife's edge for 350k years

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In things like the battle of Cajamarca the Incan lost a battle against the Spanish with 8000 warriors against 150. All the 150 survived. Disease was important but there was a large technological and cultural gap too (e.g. the Incan didn't fight at night!).

You're missing a zero. It was EIGHTY thousand, not 8000.

I thought so too, but wikipedia says 8k

Re: Neanderthals survived on a knife's edge for 350k years

#100
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In things like the battle of Cajamarca the Incan lost a battle against the Spanish with 8000 warriors against 150. All the 150 survived. Disease was important but there was a large technological and cultural gap too (e.g. the Incan didn't fight at night!).

I just read this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cajamarca It seems like the Incans were overconfident and didn't expect a surprise attack (didn't have their weapons, only a small retinue around the rule in ceremonial garb instead of armor), and then the 8000 warriors were outside and didn't even attempt to fight the Spaniards because they were so demoralized.

Well, yeah, and if you keep reading about it, the whole rest of the campaign has the same tenure.

Spain conquered and held the whole Incan empire with 168 men, also fomenting smaller factions and internal feuds etc.

The scale of this is absolutely insane.

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