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I'm betting on ATProto

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Re: I'm betting on ATProto

#91

Post by verdverm »

jimbokun wrote: post #86
bjt wrote: post #72

I like the future that the ATProto evangelists are painting. I would love for it to happen. But I am skeptical that a protocol is going to solve an incentive problem. In the beginning Twitter was very free and open with API access. There were plenty of alternative apps. Of course, that changed when they got serious about monetizing. Would it really be any harder for Bluesky to switch from ATProto to a proprietary API…

About the same number as would fork an open source project. So not very many. But the possibility of doing so is invaluable.

The phrase "hard fork" has come up before in the ecosystem, and outside of it with others who've stepped back and watch to see how things unfold.

Re: I'm betting on ATProto

#92

Post by runarberg »

pastel8739 wrote: post #59
apitman wrote: post #32

> Social media was supposed to connect us, but most of it has turned into ads, division, and loneliness. I'm betting on ATProto as a way to fix that I disagree with the premise here. I think the core mechanics of social media, ie instant communication between random strangers about random topics, creates toxic interactions regardless of whether it's manipulated by engagement algorithms. Some of the most toxic convers…

This _isn’t_ the core mechanism of social media. When social media took off, Facebook and Instagram that really did allow you to connect with people that you knew from real life. Twitter was different, and more like microblogging, but I still see the real value of social media to be what the un-shitty versions of Facebook and Instagram were.

I think your history of social media starts later then mine. My first encounter was with the IRC, talking to strangers was literally the point. I was 12 and had a lot of fun with my friends pretending to be older,

MSN Messenger came later, it was invite only (sorta) but we still found ways to use it to talk to strangers. MySpace was optimized to follow your friends, but almost everybody that used it used it to expand their social network outside of people we knew in the real world (MySpace was amazing btw.) Then came facebook. It went even harder then MySpace in connecting you with your friends, but still almost everybody used it outside their real world friends. Twitter sort of took social media back to the beginning before Messenger and to the IRC in strangers being your primary audience.

Re: I'm betting on ATProto

#93

Post by cmxch »

What does ATProto have that isn’t simply a hermetic barrier against heterodoxy?

You have a protocol that makes it easy to concentrate the self-same toxicity it is trying to prevent.

Re: I'm betting on ATProto

#94

Post by akimbostrawman »

blactuary wrote: post #20
charcircuit wrote: post #12

X just unified the feed across languages such that all posts automatically get translated for users. These kinds of innovations are much more important than the ability to be able to switch apps.

It's a nazi website. Before I left they started allowing people to call me the n-word

Pretty bigoted of you to assume there skin color, you should check your privilege.

Re: I'm betting on ATProto

#95

Post by marak830 »

davidw wrote: post #71
apitman wrote: post #32

> Social media was supposed to connect us, but most of it has turned into ads, division, and loneliness. I'm betting on ATProto as a way to fix that I disagree with the premise here. I think the core mechanics of social media, ie instant communication between random strangers about random topics, creates toxic interactions regardless of whether it's manipulated by engagement algorithms. Some of the most toxic convers…

> I disagree with the premise here. I think the core mechanics of social media, ie instant communication between random strangers about random topics, creates toxic interactions regardless of whether it's manipulated by engagement algorithms. Larry Wall said, way back in the 1990ies, "The social dynamics of the net are a direct consequence of the fact that nobody has yet developed a Remote Strangulation Protocol." Wh…

Agreed.

We can either use our real names (bad plan IMHO) or deal with the fact that without the consequences of our actions, there are a lot of arseholes around.

Moderation is the answer, I think there's no way around that. HN show's that it can be done well, reddit show's that it can be done badly. Twitter show's what happens when it's not done (yes I'm being a little extreme there).

Re: I'm betting on ATProto

#96

Post by Karrot_Kream »

verdverm wrote: post #13
throwaway85825 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like most of Japan.

Japanese is the second most used language on Bluesky https://bskycharts.edavis.dev/edavis.dev/bskycharts.edavis.d...

Japanese Bluesky isn't even close to Twitter yet. No politicians, no actors and actresses, no seiyuu, no utaite, a few mangaka and light novel authors, nobody that talks about trains, though there is the Frieren official account. There's a few Japanese that are just trying to generally meet new people or some that use Blueksy as a 1 way venting valve.

And as usual there are some political Japanese. In fact given how small Japanese Bluesky is the amount of politics is quite shocking given that Japanese tend not to be as vocal about politics on microblogging sites. (2ch on the other hand...)

Re: I'm betting on ATProto

#97

Post by jauntywundrkind »

apitman wrote: post #32

> Social media was supposed to connect us, but most of it has turned into ads, division, and loneliness. I'm betting on ATProto as a way to fix that I disagree with the premise here. I think the core mechanics of social media, ie instant communication between random strangers about random topics, creates toxic interactions regardless of whether it's manipulated by engagement algorithms. Some of the most toxic convers…

Please commit to your beliefs and sign out, don't come back, if you think that way about social media. Stop proving your point wrong by using social media like hacker news comments, if you think social media so blanketly bad, useless, & ineffective.

IMO there's huge value, these are amazing connective spaces. The sheer rank pitiful nihilism of these grievance-only walk-away shut-down views is totally unacceptable, is unhelpful in extreme, is not going to move things along in any useful way, and we need to figure out how to actually improve broadly, socially.

I can't stand that such energy drain vampire viewpoints get upvoted so consistently. Stop sucking all the energy from the room, stop draining those who want to try, especially as you use the medium you are also decrying as garbage, and log off and don't post at all. We don't deserve to be continually undermined by sucking empty try-nothing dont-care nihilism.

Re: I'm betting on ATProto

#98

Post by austinjp »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #97
apitman wrote: post #32

> Social media was supposed to connect us, but most of it has turned into ads, division, and loneliness. I'm betting on ATProto as a way to fix that I disagree with the premise here. I think the core mechanics of social media, ie instant communication between random strangers about random topics, creates toxic interactions regardless of whether it's manipulated by engagement algorithms. Some of the most toxic convers…

Please commit to your beliefs and sign out, don't come back, if you think that way about social media. Stop proving your point wrong by using social media like hacker news comments, if you think social media so blanketly bad, useless, & ineffective. IMO there's huge value, these are amazing connective spaces. The sheer rank pitiful nihilism of these grievance-only walk-away shut-down views is totally unacceptable, is…

Erm.... you're not exactly proving them wrong are you.

Re: I'm betting on ATProto

#99

Post by jauntywundrkind »

gmerc wrote: post #67

We are still betting on technology to fix society scale problems I see.

To me this looks like betting on using open interoperation to allow people to keep finding systems, moderation, algorithms, tools, and apps that work, that give them control and personal sovereignty over their personal data servers.

I don't think we've had many times where we actually give people a chance. Sure Twitter didn't used to cost $40k a year for API access, but it still had gobs of restrictions on what you could look at and do. It still was Twitter's moderation & feeds.

The whole experience here is up for remake, perpetually. It is the anti-stagnant, the anti-rot that besets all these controlled systems.

Re: I'm betting on ATProto

#100

Post by razingeden »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #97
apitman wrote: post #32

> Social media was supposed to connect us, but most of it has turned into ads, division, and loneliness. I'm betting on ATProto as a way to fix that I disagree with the premise here. I think the core mechanics of social media, ie instant communication between random strangers about random topics, creates toxic interactions regardless of whether it's manipulated by engagement algorithms. Some of the most toxic convers…

Please commit to your beliefs and sign out, don't come back, if you think that way about social media. Stop proving your point wrong by using social media like hacker news comments, if you think social media so blanketly bad, useless, & ineffective. IMO there's huge value, these are amazing connective spaces. The sheer rank pitiful nihilism of these grievance-only walk-away shut-down views is totally unacceptable, is…

You must be seeing ants over the fact that you can’t put the parent commenter on some “list” that prevents me from seeing a reasoned and reasonably civil comment that you disagree with.

20,000,000 accounts out of 60,000,000 [0] have already fled Bluesky in despair and will never return to it. Including some of its own creators, like jack Dorsey.

Their technology stack is completely irrelevant because it is botted to death, its user base are aggressive, angry lunatics who drag every single new account through purity tests and struggle sessions. Okay it’s a cool stack, but I wouldn’t go there or read that shit for a million dollars.

When 30% of your accounts delete themselves and never look back, it’s not even a fringe opinion that your sites toxic and not worth engaging with. And no. I’m not going to stop reading HN or participating in a dead IRC chatroom with 10 people in it just because “social media” sites are all , in the balance, equally worthless.

The stuff that gets normalized on Twitter and the stuff that gets normalized on Bluesky both disgust me. The internet is a big place and I have other options. HN is one of the few places left where quite a lot of that is not socially acceptable.

[0] https://clearsky.app

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