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Why are executives enamored with AI, but ICs aren't?

johnjwang.com

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Re: Why are executives enamored with AI, but ICs aren't?

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you understand and you agree and confirm my experience?

I have worked at many places and have seen the work of DEs and DSs that is borderline psychotic; but it got the job done, sorta. I have suffered through QA of 10000 lines that I ended up rewriting in less than 100. So, yes; I understand where you’re coming from. But; that’s not what we do.

Yes, but then you said that you do what I'm suggesting is still critical to do, which is maintain the codebase even if you heavily leverage models. " we do indeed take care to ensure we’re building these things the right way."

Re: Why are executives enamored with AI, but ICs aren't?

#92
I do not think most executives are particularly enamored with AI. They are being mostly driven by the fear of missing out. More precisely, their thought process is: if they bet on AI and fail, they can plausibly claim that it was the technology's fault (not good enough, poorly suited for the business, etc). But if they skip on AI by choice, and their competition succeeds, they will be blamed personally. The more hyped a technology is, the stronger this calculus is for the managers. It's like Pascal's wager in a way.

Re: Why are executives enamored with AI, but ICs aren't?

#93
Look at any of the large developer surveys out there, AI adoption is up to 80 - 90%; ICs absolutely are enamored with AI too. HN, and social media in general, is largely an echo chamber of the loudest voices that tend to skew negative, but does not reflect the broader reality. If HN were to be believed, most of Big Tech would be dead instead of thriving more than ever.

That said, the central point of the TFA is spot-on, though it could be made more generally, as it applies to engineering as well as management: uncertainty rises sharply the higher you climb the corporate and/or seniority ladder. In fact, the most important responsibility at higher levels is to take increasing ambiguity and transform it into much more deterministic roles and tasks that can be farmed out to many more people lower on the ladder.

The biggest impact of AI is that most deterministic tasks (and even some suprisingly ambiguous ones) are now spoken for. This happens to be at the bread and butter of the junior levels, and is where most of the job displacement will happen.

I would say the most essential skill now is critical thinking, and the most essential personality trait is being comfortable with uncertainty (or as the LinkedInfluencers call it, "having a growth mindset.") Unfortunately, most of our current educational and training processes fail to adequately prepare us for this (see: "grade inflation") so at a minimum the fix needs to start there.

Re: Why are executives enamored with AI, but ICs aren't?

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And one executive talks to other executives not to their engineers. I think this is more peer pressure than anything else.

I lead a team of Data Engineers, DevOps Engineers, and Data Scientists. I write code and have done so literally for my entire life. AI-assisted codegen is incredible; especially over the last 3-4m. I understand that developers feel their code is an art form and are pissed off that their life’s work is now a commodity; but, it’s time to either accept it and move on with what has happened, specialize as an actual artis…

My problem with the code the agents produce has nothing to do with style or art. The clearest example of how bad it is was shown by Anthropic's experiements where agents failed to write a C compiler, which is not a very hard programming job to begin with if you know compilers, as the models do, but they failed even with a practically unrealistic level of assistance (a complete spec, thousands of human-written tests, and a reference implementation used as an oracle, not to mention that the models were trained on both the spec and reference implementation).

If you look at the evolution of agent-written code you see that it may start out fine, but as you add more and more features, things go horribly wrong. Let's say the model runs into a wall. Sometimes the right thing to do is go back into the architecture and put a door in that spot; other times the right thing to do is ask why you hit that wall in the first place, maybe you've taken a wrong turn. The models seem to pick one or the other almost at random, and sometimes they just blast a hole through the wall. After enough features, it's clear there's no convergence, just like what happened in Anthropic's experiment. The agents ultimately can't fix one problem without breaking something else.

You can also see how they shoot themselves in the foot by adding layers upon layers of defensive coding that get so think they themselves can't think through them. I once asked an agent to write a data structure that maintains an invariant in subroutine A and uses it in subroutine B. It wrote A fine, but B ignored the invariant and did a brute-force search over the data, the very thing the data structure was meant to avoid. As it was writing it the agent explained that it doesn't want to trust the invariant established in A because it might be buggy... Another thing you frequently see is that the code they write is so intent on success that it has a plan A, plan B, and plan C for everything. It tries to do something one way and adds contingencies for failure.

And so the code and the complexity compound until nothing and no one can save you. If you're lucky, your program is "finished" before that happens. My experience is mostly with gpt5.4 and 5.3-codex, although Anthropic's failed experiment shows that the Claude models suffer from similar problems. What does it say when a compiler expert that knows multiple compilers pretty much by heart, with access to thousands of tests, can't even write a C compiler? Most important software is more complex than a C compiler, isn't as well specified, and the models haven't trained on it.

I wish they could write working code; they just don't.[1] But man, can they debug (mostly because they're tenacious and tireless).

[1]: By which I don't mean they never do, but you really can't trust them to do it as you can a programmer. Knowing to code, like knowing to fly a plane, doesn't mean sometimes getting the right result. It means always getting the right result (within your capabilities that are usually known in advance in the case of humans).

Re: Why are executives enamored with AI, but ICs aren't?

#95
post #42
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope that’s exaggeration because being unable to operate without it means you’re going to do a terrible job of reviewing the code it’s producing.

Since the November/December Opus and Claude Code, I found I don't need to read the code any more. Architecture overview sure, and testing yes, but not reading the code directly any more. Me (and my friends similarly) inspect code indirectly now - telling agents to write reports about certain aspects of the code and architecture etc.

I'd understand not reading the code of the system under test, but you don't even read the tests? I'd do that if my architecture and design were very precise, but at this point I'd have spent too much time designing rather than implementing (and possibly uncovering unknown unknowns in the process).

> Me (and my friends similarly) inspect code indirectly now - telling agents to write reports about certain aspects of the code and architecture etc.

Doesn't this take longer than reading the code?

I can see how some of this is part of the future (I remember this article talking about python modules having a big docstring at the top fully describing the public functions, and the author describing how they just update this doc, then regenerate the code fully, never reading it, and I find this quite convincing), but in the end I just want the most concise language for what I'm trying to express. If I need an edge case covered, I'd rather have a very simple test making that explicit than more verbose forms. Until we have formal specifications everywhere I guess.

But maybe I'm just not picturing what you mean exactly by "reports".

Re: Why are executives enamored with AI, but ICs aren't?

#96
I think ICs are threatened because they're told from day one how they are at will employees that can be terminated at any time with or without cause.

On top of that, places like Amazon extol the virtues of only working on projects that can be completed with entirely fungible staffing and Google tries ever so hard to electroplate this steaming turd of an ideology with iron pyrite calling fungibles "generalists."

So along comes AI coding agents, which I love as an IC because it excels at tedious work I'd rather not have to do in the first place, yet I get why others see it as a threat. But I really think it's no more of a threat than any other empty promise to cut costs with the silver bullet of the month and we just have to let the loudmouths insist otherwise until the industry figures out this isn't a magic black box. They never learn, do they? Maybe their jobs depend on never learning.

Re: Why are executives enamored with AI, but ICs aren't?

#97
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iterating an existing product takes time, but creating a clean room clone of an existing product could be accelerated significantly with AI. We could be moving towards an environment where bigtech falls back on one of its core competencies (scale) and hoards infra while small startups pay them compute and inference costs to undercut existing consumer-facing software on price.

I don’t follow, do you mean to say that meta will become an infra provider instead of the full experience?

I can’t say who will win or lose. The value of a social network has as much to do with its userbase than its tech, so maybe Meta has a different path. Alphabet and Microsoft are who I really have in mind here.

Re: Why are executives enamored with AI, but ICs aren't?

#98
Admit to having drank the koolaide, it is the first step. I wrote an entire system with tech I barely understand (duckdb), next.js etc, made 7 to 10 iterations per day, and multiple new functions and integrations in hours all while doing my main job. What does the code look like ???. It works, I do not care. Can the AI modify it in under 5 minutes, yes. New features that would take minimal a week, got done in 2 to 3 minutes. Did the AI ever complain, no it did not. Anyone who thinks they will be hand coding going forward is completely fooling themselves. The AI tests better than most engineers. When asked it builds flawless test harnesses and even suggests better solutions. Never going back.

Re: Why are executives enamored with AI, but ICs aren't?

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you work on? I find people tend to omit that on HN and folks dealing with different roles end up yelling at each other because those details are missing. Being an embedded sw engineer writing straight C/ASM is, for instance, quite different from being a frontend engineer. AI will perform quite differently in each case.

AI is very good at writing C and asm. It even writes good Verilog. Unfortunately.

My experience is that it gets the syntax right but constantly hallucinates APIs and functions that don't exist but sound like they should. It also seems to be tricked by variable names that don't line up with their usage.

Re: Why are executives enamored with AI, but ICs aren't?

#100
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what you're saying is that now the worst devs can produce code faster and their velocity is no longer limited by their incompetence. Why is this supposed to be a good thing?

Come on man, that’s not what GP is saying.

How is it not? It reads to me as them saying that all these devs have deskilled from "barely competent" to "completely helpless". Or is your claim that they were actually really good devs, and the deskilling has been even more intense than I'm picturing?

Because that also sounds real bad!

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