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I am leaving the AI party after one drink

lara-aigmueller.at

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Re: I am leaving the AI party after one drink

#91

Post by sunir »

coxmi wrote: post #50
sunir wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not insane. They are correct that is the point of civilization which carries information from generation to generation outside the oral tradition in a systematic organized reliable way.

The point of civilisation, however loose that idea may be, if it’s anything at all, is determined by people. Technology exists today in a way that feels like it could be defining its own path in a sense, but much like oral tradition, neither are large enough concepts to describe civilisation.

Technodeterminism is a common feeling in paradigm shifting moments. Don’t forget who is at the helm of the change.

Re: I am leaving the AI party after one drink

#92

Post by [deleted] »

legitster wrote: post #7

> I don’t want to feel this kind of “addiction.” > I don’t want to depend on something doing the work I earn money with. > I don’t want to give up my brain and become lazy and not think for myself anymore. There are a lot of good reasons we should be skeptical of AI and not give up on essential skills. But sometimes I want to shake these people by the shoulders. Do you drive an automatic car? Do you use a microwave?…

[deleted]

Re: I am leaving the AI party after one drink

#93

Post by legitster »

jplusequalt wrote: post #83
legitster wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is purely a matter of perception. Cooking a meal is a deeply intellectual process. If I buy a meal from a restaurant, yes I am losing a skill. But if making a hollandaise is not a skill I ever need in my life, it's not really a practical loss. AI is taking problems and putting them in a drawer so we never have to think about it again. Matches de-intellectualized making a fire. A washing machine de-intellectualiz…

>It only a loss if you think the skill and ability you are losing is intrinsically valuable What about the skill of learning itself? I would suggest that's one of the most important skills humans have evolved. The more integrated AI becomes in our societies, the more it will automate away potential opportunities for learning. I can forsee a world tightly integrated with AI where people are not only physically sedenta…

Here's a practical example: I am using AI to help me with my garden. It's been amazing - it helps me identify plants, identify soil issues, what fertilizer to use and what days to apply it, etc.

What exactly did AI take from me? Spending hours of research on Google and Youtube to glean little incomplete bits and pieces? Calling a yard service?

It's also clearly obvious when AI gives bad or incorrect advice - I am still trying different things and watching for the results.

Coding is a outlier example where AI can just do the work semi-competently without anyone checking it. But I think it speaks more to the nature of coding itself - coding is a means to an end and for most people not an actual pursuit in itself.

Re: I am leaving the AI party after one drink

#94

Post by legitster »

jplusequalt wrote: post #69
mhluongo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm not mistaken, this was Socrates' exact perspective on writing.

>Socrates' exact perspective on writing Again, writing replacing memorization is not a good 1:1 comparison to AI replacing technical understanding. Someone still needs to understand what is written and act upon that knowledge. That requires skill and experience in the domain they're working within. However, a person using an AI does not need to understand the underlying problem to get results. A person can ask Claude…

> However, a person using an AI does not need to understand the underlying problem to get results. A person can ask Claude Code to write them a web app dashboard without having ever learned JS/CSS/HTML. It does not require them to have skills within a domain.

This perspective is funny to me because of how much the modern web is already built around web developers refusing to use CSS and PHP. The giving up of the skills happened before the automation.

Re: I am leaving the AI party after one drink

#95

Post by tines »

legitster wrote: post #59
tines wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you're likening fundamentally unlike things. AI isn't like a microwave or an automatic car or a power tool. It does not augment you. As I said elsewhere: AI is not a bicycle for the mind, it's an easy chair. You will lose more than you ever gain.

This is purely a matter of perception. Cooking a meal is a deeply intellectual process. If I buy a meal from a restaurant, yes I am losing a skill. But if making a hollandaise is not a skill I ever need in my life, it's not really a practical loss. AI is taking problems and putting them in a drawer so we never have to think about it again. Matches de-intellectualized making a fire. A washing machine de-intellectualiz…

Now you're getting it! The modern way of life which prioritizes convenience and production destroys human connection. Making sauce is pointless; let's go one step further and make every other thing you might do equally pointless. Welcome to the hellscape! It's surprisingly comfortable.

Re: I am leaving the AI party after one drink

#96

Post by legitster »

tines wrote: post #95
legitster wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is purely a matter of perception. Cooking a meal is a deeply intellectual process. If I buy a meal from a restaurant, yes I am losing a skill. But if making a hollandaise is not a skill I ever need in my life, it's not really a practical loss. AI is taking problems and putting them in a drawer so we never have to think about it again. Matches de-intellectualized making a fire. A washing machine de-intellectualiz…

Now you're getting it! The modern way of life which prioritizes convenience and production destroys human connection. Making sauce is pointless; let's go one step further and make every other thing you might do equally pointless. Welcome to the hellscape! It's surprisingly comfortable.

The other extreme is also a hellscape. Work and suffering is the only thing of value. Let's make pyramids to bring people together and show off our collective wealth.

Re: I am leaving the AI party after one drink

#97

Post by jplusequalt »

legitster wrote: post #93
jplusequalt wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It only a loss if you think the skill and ability you are losing is intrinsically valuable What about the skill of learning itself? I would suggest that's one of the most important skills humans have evolved. The more integrated AI becomes in our societies, the more it will automate away potential opportunities for learning. I can forsee a world tightly integrated with AI where people are not only physically sedenta…

Here's a practical example: I am using AI to help me with my garden. It's been amazing - it helps me identify plants, identify soil issues, what fertilizer to use and what days to apply it, etc. What exactly did AI take from me? Spending hours of research on Google and Youtube to glean little incomplete bits and pieces? Calling a yard service? It's also clearly obvious when AI gives bad or incorrect advice - I am sti…

>What exactly did AI take from me? Spending hours of research on Google and Youtube to glean little incomplete bits and pieces? Calling a yard service?

An opportunity for a deeper understanding of gardening? If you spend hours researching on gardening and come away with an incomplete understanding of what you were attempting to do, I'm not sure that's immediately the fault of the research available. It could be that you just didn't do a good job searching for the necessary information.

In this way, AI can be a boon. It helps figure out what you actually want to know in the moment. But I think it would be a step to far to say that a smattering of specific questions can replace the sturdy foundation povided by a typical education--e.g. through apprenticeship, books, etc.

>It's also clearly obvious when AI gives bad or incorrect advice

Is it? Isn't this a __core__ problem that researchers around the world are trying to solve? Also, __how__ could you make such a statement unless you already possessed the knowledge ahead of time to make such a judgment? I think it's hard to know if something is bad advice by looking at just cause and effect. It could be that you just lack the understanding to put the advice into practice.

Re: I am leaving the AI party after one drink

#98

Post by hgoel »

legitster wrote: post #7

> I don’t want to feel this kind of “addiction.” > I don’t want to depend on something doing the work I earn money with. > I don’t want to give up my brain and become lazy and not think for myself anymore. There are a lot of good reasons we should be skeptical of AI and not give up on essential skills. But sometimes I want to shake these people by the shoulders. Do you drive an automatic car? Do you use a microwave?…

Agreed, this is the aspect of the AI criticism I find strange too. We should want to be targeted in how we use it, just as how a practical fusion reactor wouldn't replace solar in every situation. Not reject it outright.

We should be using these capabilities to allow ourselves to work on harder problems. In science, there are a lot of tasks that require a low, but non-zero amount of intelligence and aren't really the most interesting part of science. Many of these tasks limit how much work can actually be done. Automate them, and you can dramatically increase your capabilities and focus on the actual science work.

Re: I am leaving the AI party after one drink

#99

Post by ryandvm »

allenrb wrote: post #31

For what it’s worth (ie, absolutely nothing), I agree with her 100%. I didn’t get into this field in order to prompt an AI to take care of the details. I got into it because I love the details. I’m a strong performer on a good team at a company many people would want to work at… and I know the clock is ticking. Sooner or later, I will be too slow. I’m not going to claim that this is the wrong way to go. It’s obviousl…

48 years old and I am 100% feeling this.

Yes, I am much more productive having Claude Code bang out boilerplate back-end code, but honestly I always kind of enjoyed doing it. Now I'm just a micro-manager for an AI.

And honestly, how long will that last? Given that LLMs came out of nowhere to radically redefine my role from software engineer to prompt writer in just a couple years, I have every reason to believe that they're coming for my role as prompt engineer next. (As my CEO surely hopes.)

I'm just glad the timing of the great AI replacement began right when I was nearing burnout anyway.

Re: I am leaving the AI party after one drink

#100

Post by bachmeier »

mr_mitm wrote: post #30
legitster wrote: post #7

> I don’t want to feel this kind of “addiction.” > I don’t want to depend on something doing the work I earn money with. > I don’t want to give up my brain and become lazy and not think for myself anymore. There are a lot of good reasons we should be skeptical of AI and not give up on essential skills. But sometimes I want to shake these people by the shoulders. Do you drive an automatic car? Do you use a microwave?…

Douglas Adams really put it best: > “I’ve come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies,” writes Douglas Adams in The Salmon of Doubt. > 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works. > 2. Anything that’s invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can proba…

That's probably true to some extent, but I'm not completely on board.

> 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.

Television and calculators were in the world when I was born, but I never viewed them as "natural". TV always seemed to be a way to distract yourself from the world.

> 2. Anything that’s invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.

I was happy to get on board with the WWW, the web browser, and widespread email usage. Those were revolutionary technologies with immense values. On the other hand, I'm still not on board with text messaging, phone scrolling, or social media. If I could, I'd eliminate social media from society.

> 3. Anything invented after you’re thirty-five is against the natural order of things.

I'm over 50 and a strong believer in the value of the LLM. It's a work tool that I can use at work and put away when I'm at home (or not, depending on my mood). It's new and exciting and revolutionary and a move in the right direction for humanity.

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