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A Eulogy for Vim

drewdevault.com

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Re: A Eulogy for Vim

#91

Post by iLemming »

elif wrote: post #73
iLemming wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't do this. "editors outlive their creators' reputations/departures" - is a reasonable point. But to make it land as a zinger, you decided to dig up some most inflammatory Stallman material possible, that does a lot of collateral damage to the framing. Emacs the tool and Stallman the person are not nearly as coupled as your comment implies. Stallman created Emacs, yes, but the Emacs community drove him out…

I am an emacs main. I boot straight into emacs fullscreen mode by default. I'm literally describing the resilience of the emacs community exactly as you described.

I don't disagree with the general notion of your sentiment. I just wish there was less dragging Stallman's dick behavior into the mix of Emacs-related discourse. Which doesn't happen a lot, still would be ideal if it didn't happen at all.

Re: A Eulogy for Vim

#93

Post by elif »

iLemming wrote: post #91
elif wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am an emacs main. I boot straight into emacs fullscreen mode by default. I'm literally describing the resilience of the emacs community exactly as you described.

I don't disagree with the general notion of your sentiment. I just wish there was less dragging Stallman's dick behavior into the mix of Emacs-related discourse. Which doesn't happen a lot, still would be ideal if it didn't happen at all.

Stallman deserves to be criticized for his own positions.

And the emacs community deserves the right to call him out to distance ourselves from them.

Re: A Eulogy for Vim

#94

Post by elif »

tzs wrote: post #87
elif wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll explain instead of just adding the easily discoverable quote. He is assigning the blame to Epstein's victims.

How is that assigning the blame to Epstein's victims? The scenario being described was that Epstein was ordering some of his victims, who were ostensibly employed as masseuses at his resort, to go and offer sex to specific people who were at an event taking place there. You don't keep a sex trafficking operation going as long as he did if you don't coerce victims in that situation to play along with the story that th…

"the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing"

if you dont understand what that is saying, i can't help you.

Re: A Eulogy for Vim

#95

Post by nh23423fefe »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #69
embedding-shape wrote: post #22

> I think it’s more important that we stop collectively pretending that we don’t understand how awful all of this is Lord forbid if people disagree with you. I know Drew's vibe is always "I'm right because I'm the only one with the correct opinions", but it does get tiring after a while. Not to say AI isn't having huge drawbacks being introduced, and aren't exactly worry-free, but why not change your frame of mind fr…

> "People are seeing something I'm not, what am I missing?" I've seen people celebrate horrors beyond my comprehension. Cheer the deaths of innocent people because it may inch some abstract national goal closer to a similarly abstract measurement. Insist that lives in one place are worth less than lives in another. Should I ask "what am I missing"? I don't think so, sometimes you draw a line on moral or ethical groun…

This unpersuasive moralizing demonstrates the blindspot GP is talking about. You invent a moral/ethical line because you can't find a good line.

using gpt is like bombing schools?

Re: A Eulogy for Vim

#96

Post by AlexandrB »

wwweston wrote: post #31
AlexandrB wrote: post #3

> I won’t speculate on how he would have felt about generative AI, but I can say that GenAI is something I care about. It causes a lot of problems for a lot of people. It drives rising energy prices in poor communities, disrupts wildlife and fresh water supplies, increases pollution, and stresses global supply chains. This kind of stuff drives me crazy sometimes. There's is little that's unique to AI here. These are…

There’s a lot of good points in your comment, but fwiw it’s not clear whether they exist to dismiss a complaint or muster focus on the issues. You’re right to point out that we’re all opted in at multiple levels to tech dependent on mining operations with a terrible human cost. I’d love to see these dangerous mining operations made safer with tech and policy, and you’re quite right that individual opt out is unlikely…

I think my main point is that these particular concerns largely depend on someone already sharing the author's opinion - that AI is bad. They're not convincing otherwise because most other IT buildouts (e.g. "cloud computing", cryptocurrency) have a lot of the same drawbacks. Whether these costs are worth it or not then depends entirely on the nature of the technology they're being used for (which is why I brought up green tech).

Re: A Eulogy for Vim

#97

Post by AlexandrB »

phyzome wrote: post #81
AlexandrB wrote: post #3

> I won’t speculate on how he would have felt about generative AI, but I can say that GenAI is something I care about. It causes a lot of problems for a lot of people. It drives rising energy prices in poor communities, disrupts wildlife and fresh water supplies, increases pollution, and stresses global supply chains. This kind of stuff drives me crazy sometimes. There's is little that's unique to AI here. These are…

The cobalt thing is apparently misinformation. You've been misled. Technology Connections did a great video that goes into this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtQ9nt2ZeGM

Sorry, I did a quick google search which seemed to indicate that cobalt is present in solar panels and batteries and not a deep dive. The broader point, that whether mining X mineral for Y purpose is bad depends entirely on what you already think of Y, remains.

Re: A Eulogy for Vim

#98

Post by AlexandrB »

fhd2 wrote: post #13
AlexandrB wrote: post #3

> I won’t speculate on how he would have felt about generative AI, but I can say that GenAI is something I care about. It causes a lot of problems for a lot of people. It drives rising energy prices in poor communities, disrupts wildlife and fresh water supplies, increases pollution, and stresses global supply chains. This kind of stuff drives me crazy sometimes. There's is little that's unique to AI here. These are…

> I think there's also a pretty good chance that if a robot that could mine the same cobalt with no human intervention appeared tomorrow, many folks would complain about "hard working cobalt miners in Africa losing their livelihood to automation". Well, yeah? Just because the current work safety situation is bad, doesn't mean being out of a job couldn't be worse. I'd love a world where more automation meant less, saf…

> I'd love a world where more automation meant less, safer, higher paying work for everyone. Our world never worked like that, to my knowledge, and I'm not sure it ever will.

I'm not sure what you mean because that's literally what happened. The only remaining caveat is that it's not yet "everyone", but even that part is improving. If I was born in feudal Europe I would have spent my life planting, weeding, and de-pesting potatoes by hand instead of sitting at a computer in a climate-controlled office.

Re: A Eulogy for Vim

#99

Post by mikkupikku »

elif wrote: post #94
tzs wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that assigning the blame to Epstein's victims? The scenario being described was that Epstein was ordering some of his victims, who were ostensibly employed as masseuses at his resort, to go and offer sex to specific people who were at an event taking place there. You don't keep a sex trafficking operation going as long as he did if you don't coerce victims in that situation to play along with the story that th…

"the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing" if you dont understand what that is saying, i can't help you.

He's saying that Marvin Minsk might not have known that he was on pedo entrapment island and may have assumed a teenage girl was of age. Telling the entrapment targets the deal up front wouldn't be very smart. This is not blaming the girls, it was Epstein's setup.

Re: A Eulogy for Vim

#100

Post by margalabargala »

elif wrote: post #84
margalabargala wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> defense of Jeffrey Epstein himself Do you have a link for this? What I recall of that whole scenario was that Stallman said something fairly minor regarding Minsky, and the nuance of the words written were lost on the mob and he was accused of saying something worse than that. I'm not aware of him providing any defense of Epstein himself.

here's the quote you didn't want to include “We can imagine many scenarios, but the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing,” Stallman added. “Assuming she was being coerced by Epstein, he would have had every reason to tell her to conceal that from most of his associates.”

Didn't want to include? That's the quote I'm referring to.

"Sex trafficker probably told the people he trafficked not to tell anyone that they were being trafficked. Trafficked people trapped on an island with their abuser may have done as they were told out of fear." Obviously.

I don't see how that statement is a defense of Epstein, or victim blaming.

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