Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How BYD got EV chargers to work almost as fast as gas pumps

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 286 posts

Re: How BYD got EV chargers to work almost as fast as gas pumps

#91

Post by bigbadfeline »

Mashimo wrote: post #38
pjc50 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data centers are (a) private not public and (b) throwing money at the problem on the assumption of being able to capture a significant chunk of all white collar incomes. And they're running into the public issues already, such as lack of large power transformer availability and noise complaints from trying to generate their own power.

But gas pumps / electric charging stations are also private.

Many things are private but some of them are more private than others, the details can be quite intriguing.

Plenty of gas pumps to go around, more of them aren't going to provide anybody private with more of what they crave the most which data centers do provide. That's the reason for the push to abandon EVs and reduce their competing demand for scarce electricity.

New electric capacity, paid for by the ratepayers, would benefit those same ratepayers if used for EV charging but big biz isn't in the game for them.

Re: How BYD got EV chargers to work almost as fast as gas pumps

#92

Post by toomuchtodo »

jmyeet wrote: post #87
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xi is the first President/leader China has had who literally never worked another job outside of politics and doesn’t speak a foreign language. They gave him a degree in chemical engineering when the universities re-opened after the cultural revolution but he never even had to pretend to use it. Hu, Jiang, and Deng actually worked as engineers and spoke languages besides Chinese (Russian and/or English). Despite all…

Xi is a fascinating figure. I had real concerns when he pushed through repealing term limits. I thought this could be another Putin but that hasn't been the case. First, he's had a real anti-corruption push that seems to be meaningful and seems to apply to senior government officials and the wealthy (eg Jack Ma). Second, real estate speculation was rampant in China for years but Xi quietly popped the bubble more than…

Entire subthread is excellent, great comments and observations by all.

Re: How BYD got EV chargers to work almost as fast as gas pumps

#93

Post by seanmcdirmid »

jmyeet wrote: post #87
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xi is the first President/leader China has had who literally never worked another job outside of politics and doesn’t speak a foreign language. They gave him a degree in chemical engineering when the universities re-opened after the cultural revolution but he never even had to pretend to use it. Hu, Jiang, and Deng actually worked as engineers and spoke languages besides Chinese (Russian and/or English). Despite all…

Xi is a fascinating figure. I had real concerns when he pushed through repealing term limits. I thought this could be another Putin but that hasn't been the case. First, he's had a real anti-corruption push that seems to be meaningful and seems to apply to senior government officials and the wealthy (eg Jack Ma). Second, real estate speculation was rampant in China for years but Xi quietly popped the bubble more than…

There were lots of red flags with Xi, and I’m afraid the world will learn the wrong lessons from his success. Maybe Democracy really is overrated, after all it gave us Trump…twice. The world looks at the USA and China as role models, and only the latter don’t look like a complete clown.

He did suffer from the cultural revolution but afterward he was elevated with strong preference. He even lost one of those Chinese “elections” where they take the top 20 out of 21 candidates, and they still let him through.

Re: How BYD got EV chargers to work almost as fast as gas pumps

#94

Post by timbit42 »

_fizz_buzz_ wrote: post #56
nneonneo wrote: post #34

Based on the figures here, they’re claiming around 400 miles of range added in 300 seconds (60% of the full 677 mile range); contrast this with around 100 seconds for a typical gas pump (8 gal/min) and typical efficiency (30 mpg). It suggests that you’d need around 5MW chargers to truly get to the speed of a gas pump. On the other hand, 5 minutes is already a huge improvement over 15-30 minutes, and it’s fast enough…

5mins is really as good as it has to be. Almost everyone needs a bathroom break or gets a drink/snack after 400miles.

And you can do that while charging as there is no need to sit and hold a pump handle.

Re: How BYD got EV chargers to work almost as fast as gas pumps

#95

Post by boringg »

tim333 wrote: post #80
orbital-decay wrote: post #63

>Just taking an existing fast charger with 150- or 350-kW capacity and swapping in the latest and greatest 1,500-kW chargers wouldn’t get anyone faster speeds. The system would need all new “pipes”—grid capacity—to actually move that much current. The grid doesn't necessarily mean "pipes" or power lines. You don't build a pipeline to every gas station. Mobile charging robots work pretty well in China.

Also I guess they could put a large battery at the charging station so it can take say a steady 200kw from the grid and be able to kick out 1500kw for ten minutes occasionally. That could also charge from cheap off peak electricity.

Traffic congestion costs for electricity is going to get wild if we start stacking all sorts of random >= 1.5 MW demands scattered everywhere.

Re: How BYD got EV chargers to work almost as fast as gas pumps

#96

Post by RevEng »

I wonder if Gil Tal has ever used an EV as their daily vehicle.

I have had two EVs in the last three years - a Kona and an IONIQ 5. I have greatly enjoyed them both. But one thing was a downside that I just had to accept: poor charging.

Granted, I live in the Canadian Prairies full of small towns a fair distance apart. And it's not exactly progressive - I'm actually being taxed for owning an EV. The charging infrastructure is sparse with 50-100kW charges every 100km. On long distance trips I spend 1 hour charging for every 2 hours driving. To say that faster charging wouldn't make a meaningful difference is simply wrong. Sure, it doesn't have to be 5 minutes - even 10-15 would be enough - but current chargers don't get anywhere close to that, even with 350kW, which rarely if ever reach those charging speeds.

For driving around the city I never bat an eye. I have a level 2 charger in my garage and there's one at work that is decently priced should I ever need it. I never use a fast charger for local travel. But long distance travel is what people are worried about and having much faster charging would most certainly make a difference for me and for them.

Re: How BYD got EV chargers to work almost as fast as gas pumps

#97

Post by collingreen »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #73
shaneos wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citizens always have a choice. The cost can be terrible, but there’s always a choice

What is that “choice”? Surely you aren’t like those yokels in the south that think a “militia” running in the woods can take on the the US military or even a decent SWAT force

Being willing to fight for what you think is right even though there is no hope of winning is a choice you can make without being a tacticool yokel that doesn't understand the tech gap between the people and their masters.

Re: How BYD got EV chargers to work almost as fast as gas pumps

#98

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

RevEng wrote: post #96

I wonder if Gil Tal has ever used an EV as their daily vehicle. I have had two EVs in the last three years - a Kona and an IONIQ 5. I have greatly enjoyed them both. But one thing was a downside that I just had to accept: poor charging. Granted, I live in the Canadian Prairies full of small towns a fair distance apart. And it's not exactly progressive - I'm actually being taxed for owning an EV. The charging infrastr…

Not if the charger doesn’t work.

Re: How BYD got EV chargers to work almost as fast as gas pumps

#99

Post by russli1993 »

pimlottc wrote: post #35
netfortius wrote: post #4

This [0] is the actual (good) news, linked from the article. [0] https://www.techradar.com/vehicle-tech/hybrid-electric-vehic...

Neither article really explains how they are able to charge this fast, aside from “vertical integration” and slightly increased energy density in the battery design. No real details on the charging technology itself.

BYD did not go to specifics about their blade 2.0 battery that enables this, but there has to be battery chemistry and manufacturing advancements. CATL shared some details on their 12C LFP batteries before, they lowered li-ion mobility resistance, increased how the anode and cathode can accept more li-ions at faster rates. Another improvement for blade 2.0 battery is the charge curve is much better. 80 - 90 % can have much higher charging rates.

Re: How BYD got EV chargers to work almost as fast as gas pumps

#100

Post by russli1993 »

_fizz_buzz_ wrote: post #51
pimlottc wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither article really explains how they are able to charge this fast, aside from “vertical integration” and slightly increased energy density in the battery design. No real details on the charging technology itself.

Sounds like the trick is to use 1.5MW chargers. I guess that'll do it. I suppose the question is how they handel this thermally.

there needs to be battery chemistry improvements. Otherwise, with existing batteries, charging at these speeds will cause too much heat and shorten battery life span. BYD is offering 1.5MW charging with increased battery lifespan and without increasing the heat dissipation requirements. Another improvement compared to current crop of batteries is charge curve. Charging from 80 to 95%, BYD batteries can handle higher power than current batteries at MAX
Post reply on HN