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FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

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Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#91

Post by jshier »

cat-turner wrote: post #89

Apple should take care of this. I would pay. Sadly it has gotten to this point

What would you like them to do? They already force apps to ask for permission, give user control over when the app can even access the location (including just once), tell the user when the app has been accessing the location repeatedly over time, and allow the user the shut off location services for each app individually whenever they want. So aside from shutting off more and more possible sideband sources of location information, what else are they supposed to do?

Unless you're saying Apple is selling the location information they may have directly?

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#93

Post by pnw »

anonymars wrote: post #7
wmf wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just business. Buy (your data) for a dollar, sell for two. It's all legal and the data brokers are mostly unknown or already-hated companies so I'd say they have nothing to lose.

I wonder if we can still buy burner phones for cash at Mondo Mart

You can buy eSIMs that aren't linked to your identity at https://www.phreeli.com/

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#94

Post by sillystuff »

cameldrv wrote: post #76
FL4TLiN3 wrote: post #20

Who's selling the data is the far more serious issue here. Behind this is a remarkably well-structured syndicate. The supply chain looks something like this: consumer apps embed ad SDKs → those SDKs feed location signals into RTB ad exchanges → surveillance-oriented firms sit in the RTB pipeline and harvest bid request data even without winning auctions → that data flows to aggregators who don't have any direct relat…

The RTB thing has been around for over a decade at this point. What I’m not sure about is what’s being sold by car companies. I know they sell the data to insurance companies. I’m curious if the government can manage to get it as well commercially.

> What I’m not sure about is what’s being sold by car companies... if the government can manage to get it as well commercially.

General Motors sold driving data to data brokers including LexisNexus. Anyone, private or government can buy data from LexisNexus.

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#95

Post by adi_kurian »

Dezvous wrote: post #67
mogwire wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Carpenter v. United States (2018) was a landmark Supreme Court case that held the government generally needs a warrant to access historical cell-site location information (CSLI) from cell phone carriers, as its acquisition constitutes a Fourth Amendment search This is very different from buying your data from a company especially when the user consented to their location being tracked. Too many people in these thre…

> This is very different from buying your data from a company especially when the user consented to their location being tracked. No, it's not 'very different'. When you sign a cellular contract you consent to all sorts of tracking and data collection, but it still requires a warrant for government to obtain.

Is it materialy different than a landline (in the rights signed away, not the data emitted/captured)?

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#96

Post by jshier »

jshier wrote: post #91
cat-turner wrote: post #89

Apple should take care of this. I would pay. Sadly it has gotten to this point

What would you like them to do? They already force apps to ask for permission, give user control over when the app can even access the location (including just once), tell the user when the app has been accessing the location repeatedly over time, and allow the user the shut off location services for each app individually whenever they want. So aside from shutting off more and more possible sideband sources of locati…

Answering my own question, they need a way for users to grant location permission only to the primary app and not any of its dependencies, as once you grant it, it's available to all code in the app. It would be great if there was some way to separate those.

They could also better enable network traffic inspection on device, so we could tell where data is going. LittleSnitch on iOS would be great.

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#97

Post by shermantanktop »

In the US we live in a bizarre world of dual expectations.

The government is supposed to follow the law, be accountable, transparent, and must operate within a constrained, circumscribed zone of activity which is debated and discussed. That's at least how it's supposed to work.

Private companies are understood as amoral sharks who have no obligation to do anything other than operate in their narrowest self-interest, and the law is used as a club to beat them back from what they so clearly want to do, and will do if at all possible. They are unaccountable to anything other than the legal system and their share price. Suggesting that they might have any further obligation is tantamount to questioning whether capitalism should exist. It happens all the time on HN.

So of course the FBI would like to keep their hands mostly clean by having one of those accepted-to-be-horrible companies gather this data and then buy the resulting trove.

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#99

Post by evan_a_a »

ranger_danger wrote: post #65
thenthenthen wrote: post #55

There was a great talk at the Chaos Computer Conference a few years ago how to diy this, sadly cant find it because web search seems dead nowaydays. If anyone knows, please chip in. It was a german researcher following german politicians who hilariously(scandalously?) related travel patterns

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/12/whistleblower-finds-une... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHsz6jzjbRc

direct from the media server

https://media.ccc.de/v/38c3-wir-wissen-wo-dein-auto-steht-vo...

Re: FBI is buying location data to track US citizens, director confirms

#100

Post by jacquesm »

FL4TLiN3 wrote: post #20

Who's selling the data is the far more serious issue here. Behind this is a remarkably well-structured syndicate. The supply chain looks something like this: consumer apps embed ad SDKs → those SDKs feed location signals into RTB ad exchanges → surveillance-oriented firms sit in the RTB pipeline and harvest bid request data even without winning auctions → that data flows to aggregators who don't have any direct relat…

That's a very accurate summary.

That stupid game you installed a year ago, that's what gets you.

If you have a smartphone keep a very sharp eye on your location services, and whether they're in the state you expect them to be in. Also a great way to save your battery.

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