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Java 26 is here

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Re: Java 26 is here

#91

Post by zadikian »

HendrikHensen wrote: post #51
dzonga wrote: post #37

the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…

What do you mean by "better than Go for industry purposes"? I don't understand what "industry purposes" means and in what aspects Java is better than Go in your opinion (I can think of some myself, but I'm interested in your perspective).

Exceptions

Re: Java 26 is here

#92

Post by zadikian »

ludovicianul wrote: post #63

I program in Java for more than 15 years now. I can resonate with people hating the language from it's early days due to the experience with all the enterprisy features and over abstractions. Or confunding Java with the Spring ecosystem. But Java came a long way over the years. It's now what many would call a "modern" language. It's less verbose, has many of the features people find appealing in Scala and Kotlin and…

Lack of virtual threads was its biggest remaining problem because this made the common ways of doing cooperative multitasking very ugly. Go's big thing was having that from the start. Maybe now that Java has it too, it's set?

Though JS will still have the least boilerplate because of the way it handles types.

Re: Java 26 is here

#93

Post by Thaxll »

dzonga wrote: post #37

the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…

The fact that you mention Go explicitly hints a real issues with Java.

Re: Java 26 is here

#94

Post by hackemmy »

dzonga wrote: post #37

the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…

I write TypeScript daily and honestly it is not about being scared of Java. The ecosystem just makes more sense if you are already building for the web. You write your frontend in JS/TS, your backend in the same language, your build tools understand it natively, and you share types between client and server. That is a hard thing to replicate in Java even if the language itself is technically better in some areas. The barrier is not cultural fear, it is practical convenience.

Re: Java 26 is here

#95

Post by OSaMaBiNLoGiN »

All the changes look great. But I don't know how I feel about the syntax. A lot of things that very well could be first-class just aren't. Instead of a `lazy` keyword, we get `LazyConstant`.

I'm sure there's reasons as to why. I just don't know them.

Re: Java 26 is here

#96

Post by zadikian »

zokier wrote: post #85
nradov wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya, that seems to be a misunderstanding. "Industry purposes" covers a huge range of stuff. Go is pretty good for systems programming where Java isn't really an option due to the fundamental limits imposed by garbage collection and lack of pointers. Java is pretty good for higher-level application development where occasional GC pauses are tolerable (the GC pauses are rare and fast now, but they still rule out using J…

Go has gc too and arguably worse one than Java

Yeah but I do like not having to give Go several flags to do something reasonable with its memory

Re: Java 26 is here

#97

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

gf000 wrote: post #45
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"a solid foundation for the future" is faint praise for a language that has been around for over thirty years. > It has become a best of breed language To me it lags significantly behind .net (runtime) and C#/F# (language). I don't see Java catching-up.

They trade blows, and have different philosophies (complex runtime, simpler language vs the reverse). E.g. on the GC side Java is ahead of any other platform, especially with the low-latency ZGC garbage collector.

The counterpoint is that Java has so much SOTA GC work precisely because the language makes writing efficient code that doesn't heavily tax the GC basically impossible.

Re: Java 26 is here

#99

Post by selfmodruntime »

mands wrote: post #58
dzonga wrote: post #37

the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…

It's getting better, it doesn't all have to be Spring Boot and JBoss. There is quarkus, helidon and micronaut for slimmer more modern backend frameworks. jbang for scripting (think uvx, bunx), Tambo UI ( https://tamboui.dev/ ) for terminal UIs, and more. Along with all the new Java features that help you write much simpler code - eg. virtual threads, structured concurrency, stream gatherers, and performance / resourc…

There's also Javalin for oneshot java projects where you write your webserver like you'd write express.js

Re: Java 26 is here

#100

Post by chrysoprace »

dzonga wrote: post #37

the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…

The problem is that many jobs with Java (that I've found) lean so heavily towards OOP that it's part of the job description. I just don't enjoy OOP and find that there's almost always a simpler approach, and to have it prescribed as part of the engineering culture will always steer me away.
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