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The Fight

dcurt.is

91–100 of 140 posts

Re: The Fight

#91
This, as any would be, is certainly a valid way to respond to a brush with death. But implying that this is somehow a lesson to be learned by everyone, suggesting that others should live their life this way, seems misguided to me in context.

Contemplating your mortality shouldn't necessarily convince you to double down on your current priorities (especially if those priorities are centered around banal platitudes like "doing something remarkable with your life," which are probably masks to keep you from thinking about what really motivates you.) It should cause you to reevaluate them.

The fact that you will die, the fact that everyone you know will die, and the fact that eventually the universe might become a field of equidistant neutrinos means that it really, really doesn't matter what you accomplish. All roads, if you stay on them long enough, lead to the same place. There will be no progress. There will be no one remarking.

I would say that the lesson to be learned from thinking about death is just that there's no reason to adhere to anyone else's values, or to feel pressure to do anything in particular. You should do what you want, what makes you happy, even if it's humble.

Existential steps backward can be a tool to remove yourself from things that aren't really helpful, like for example a hyper-competitive capitalist rat-race justified by language like "fight the status quo" or "great visions of the future" that, instead of contributing to humanity, is mostly really about love, insecurity, and fear of death (like so many human pursuits).

"Fighting" here, the battle between the heroic pursuit of accomplishment on the one hand and the "insidious machine called quo" on the other, is just the author reporting his own conflicts about what he wants to do. Part of him wants to expend massive amounts of energy attempting to out-compete the people he sees as his peers. But another part of him doesn't want to do that, which is why he loses motivation and doesn't always end up behaving the way a hero-CEO might. There is not some kind of evil, inherent inertia at work that all people must fight against. Instead, there is only ambivalence and subconscious motives.

In my opinion, if you really internalize death and it's implications, the notion that you can justify prescribing ways of thinking or behaving just starts to look absurd.

Re: The Fight

#92

My grandfather is 96, he's been on dialysis for nearly 2 years now. He has zero kidney function and a tumor that has literally taken the place of one of the kidneys. His mind is sharp and he's totally lucid. He won't let us sell his cars. He believes that he's going to get better. He talks about it all the time. "As soon as I get better, we'll..." It doesn't matter if one lives 20 years or until the heat death of the…

> Death is unexpected and unwelcome. And completely inevitable. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

As for death at 20, I'm with you, but as for the latter example, I'm open to suggestions on ways to prevent the heat death of the universe. I'm not entirely sure there's anything I can do about that.

Re: The Fight

#93

This, as any would be, is certainly a valid way to respond to a brush with death. But implying that this is somehow a lesson to be learned by everyone, suggesting that others should live their life this way, seems misguided to me in context. Contemplating your mortality shouldn't necessarily convince you to double down on your current priorities (especially if those priorities are centered around banal platitudes lik…

Not sure how much I buy this. I had a similar situation to the OP in high school - a friend and mentor passed away and in the wake of his life I felt the need to Find My Purpose and conquer the world. While I realize with almost a decade under my belt that ForrestN has point - any individual mark tends to blur and disappear, I would still argue that during the days where I am fighting for something, those are the days where I feel good and alive. The days where I let ambivalence win are a waste.

I will say, the biggest difference in how I view the mark I want to make is that my scope has widened. Creating a product that changes the world, spending time with family, helping pass laws that make life Better according to my admittedly limited worldview all work.

Re: The Fight

#94

This, as any would be, is certainly a valid way to respond to a brush with death. But implying that this is somehow a lesson to be learned by everyone, suggesting that others should live their life this way, seems misguided to me in context. Contemplating your mortality shouldn't necessarily convince you to double down on your current priorities (especially if those priorities are centered around banal platitudes lik…

The fact that you are going to die isn't a scary thought in itself, whats scary is the 'when' part.

>>especially if those priorities are centered around banal platitudes like "doing something remarkable with your life," which are probably masks to keep you from thinking about what really motivates you.

Let me tell you why this is true. Its true because "doing something remarkable with your life" isn't a goal at all. At the maximum its really a vision. A goal is something that can be measured. Wanting to make $5 million in the next five years is really a goal. And its a interesting goal to chase. No matter how much interesting and challenging work I may be doing, realizing the fact that nobody knows about it beyond my cubicle is the biggest demotivating factor in my life.

I don't want to want to work on the project that forces to jolt down 100K lines of code, no matter what that project is. I want to spend most of time in life having fun, doing recreational stuff. And I'm sure many want to do the same.

Realizing that given the effects of age on energy, vitality and vigor a person can have, coupled with uncertainty about death that you may really have to sprint in your early part of your life, so that you can have all the fun in some part later.

Re: The Fight

#95

This, as any would be, is certainly a valid way to respond to a brush with death. But implying that this is somehow a lesson to be learned by everyone, suggesting that others should live their life this way, seems misguided to me in context. Contemplating your mortality shouldn't necessarily convince you to double down on your current priorities (especially if those priorities are centered around banal platitudes lik…

Really well put. But to me, you bailed out, or at least contradicted yourself with the phrase, "instead of contributing to humanity."

You set up a nice concise statement of Sartrean pointlessness, and then you appear to invalidate it completely with such a broad notion full of Big-Picture-Feel-Good-Meaningfulness as "contributing to humanity." You just kind of slipped that in there as if we all Know What You Mean. As if it wasn't the exact same species of content-free sloganeering as "fight the status quo" or "great visions of the future."

Finessing an emotive appeal to purpose in the midst of purposelessness with an abstract notion of 'humanity' doesn't make it any less vacuous, at least given the thrust of the rest of your comment.

Sorry if that comes across as harsh -- I actually liked your post and thought it was well-written. But if we're all just dissolving slowing into equidistant neutrinos in an eventual cosmic Cold Death, why should 'humanity' writ large have any more purpose attached to it than my own or any individual 'humanity'? Is that really 'internalizing death'? Moreover isn't the notion of internalizing death and absurdity merely another 'prescribed way of thinking' among many equally pointless strategems?

...and things have gotten pretty dark for HN on a Sunday Night. Flaming Lips anyone?

Re: The Fight

#96

This, as any would be, is certainly a valid way to respond to a brush with death. But implying that this is somehow a lesson to be learned by everyone, suggesting that others should live their life this way, seems misguided to me in context. Contemplating your mortality shouldn't necessarily convince you to double down on your current priorities (especially if those priorities are centered around banal platitudes lik…

I mainly disagree with this.

It is extremely hard to comprehend how short life is. Most people actively avoid knowing. They tell themselves stories about eternal life, or they act like they have all the time in the world. When circumstances conspire to wake us to the transitory nature of life, it can be incredibly valuable.

I violently disagree with the notion that the heat death of the universe "means that it really, really doesn't matter what you accomplish." That's like saying it isn't worth cooking a beautiful meal because 48 hours later it will all be poop. That there's no point to love if the body will soon be dust.

Nothing lasts, but that doesn't mean that nothing matters. If you want intuitive proof of that, go rent Rivers and Tides:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivers_and_Tides

It's a documentary about Andy Goldsworthy. Much of his art is ephemeral. The transitory nature of it make is more beautiful, not less.

Re: The Fight

#97

It's all good, but if you haven't had a close relative or a close friend die or come close to it, then no amount of preaching - Live now! Fight the momentum! Live it to the fullest! - is going to do any good. You have to experience it, unfortunately there's no other way. My dad died suddenly two years ago. Just like that - here he is, poof, here he is not. I tried to capture the feelings in a written form and then ha…

I agree that words cannot convey the experience of loss. But I don't think that means that you can't do some good with it.

The trick for me has been to try to exemplify and communicate the lessons I've learned, not the process by which I learned them. Being more joyful in the moment. Being more compassionate in the face of suffering. Facing death and loss squarely when it does come up. Declining to participate in the American game of pretending that death does not exist.

Also, I think you can sometimes talk effectively about the direct experience of loss. For example, I got a lot of positive feedback on this, despite the darkness of the topic:

http://www.quora.com/Death-and-Dying-1/What-does-it-feels-li...

Re: The Fight

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint and proviso: know what the hell you are doing . It's easily possible to do more harm than good if you don't know better. For example, whenever a motorcyclist gets into a crash, people get the bright idea that they need to get the helmet off. No, the helmet is bracing their neck, which may very well be badly injured, so sometimes if you just pull it off, now the guy's a quadriplegic, and since you were ju…

The helmet must be removed for unconscious injured. If the person is fully able to respond you should leave the helmet on unless asked otherwise, but you must remove the helmet when the injured looses consciousness. Not taking the helmet of may have the injured die of blood or puke inhaled or just his tongue blocking respiration. So you're damned if you do and more damned if you don't. Be careful when you remove the…

Without the means or training to manage the victim's airway, there's no advantage to removing the helmet. Leave it for trained rescuers.

Re: The Fight

#99

Im curious to know the suspected cause. Since he was young, it seems like it was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertrophic_cardiomyopathy

There are plenty of other cardiac abnormalities that can cause sudden cardiac death. Wolff-Parkinson-White (and other conduction pathway disorders), prolonged Q-T syndrome, etc...

Re: The Fight

#100
Inspired by Steve Jobs' quote mentioned in the article, I built this thing that reminds us about how much time we really have: www.lifing.it
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