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Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam

openttd.org

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Re: Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam

#91

Post by Chaosvex »

Macha wrote: post #35
rpcope1 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of doubt that. Chris Sawyer is on record being really hostile to open source reimaginations, especially OpenTTD (and it's just a reimagination at this point as OpenTTD shares no assets or code with it's predecessor). It wouldn't remotely surprise me if Atari was putting legal pressure on the OpenTTD devs.

I think really hostile is overstating it. He's clearly not a fan, but he seems content to (mostly privately) disapprove rather than take actions against it, which is what would to me qualify him as hostile.

He doesn't own the rights, so there's little he could do even if he wanted.

Re: Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam

#92

Post by crooked-v »

chrneu wrote: post #55
ndiddy wrote: post #6

Obviously having OpenTTD available for free on Steam would jeopardize Atari's paid rerelease of Transport Tycoon Deluxe, so I think this is a good compromise. Hopefully they rigged it up so the assets from Transport Tycoon Deluxe get picked up automatically by OpenTTD when you install the bundle. I also hope that Atari will be sharing some of the revenue from the bundle with the OpenTTD team as part of this arrangeme…

I have nothing to base this on other than "it makes sense", but it seems like there has to be some form of revenue sharing here. OpenTTD is the reason why atari can even think this rerelease would work. I'm not saying there wouldn't be interest, but that I don't think any of the suits at atari would think to do this without OpenTTD keeping the interest there.

If there was any kind of revenue sharing, I'm sure it would have been in the OpenTTD announcement, and not the pure lawyer-speak version they did release.

Re: Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam

#93

Post by Sophira »

haunter wrote: post #49
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you misread. It's bundled on that page, which links to here: https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/70574/Transport_Tycoon... But the OpenTTD item listed in the bundle is non-existent at the moment.

Doesn't matter because you can't buy on its own. It's like a free DLC. https://steamdb.info/bundle/70574/#subs https://steamdb.info/app/1536610/

It does matter, because the store page isn't just for buying - it's also for seeing system requirements, reading any applicable EULAs before purchase, and reading reviews. You can't do those from any other page on Steam.

Since the bundle is a separate purchase option and not replacing the option to buy TTD on its own, it also allows people to easily find out what they're in for by providing a description of what OpenTTD is, as opposed to just buying TTD on its own.

Re: Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam

#94

Post by koolala »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #79
DiabloD3 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chris Sawyer has not been involved in TTD for quite some time, and any remaining rights he had were bought out officially in 2024. Chris Sawyer was last involved in the IP when it was rugpulled out from under him in the early 2000s and sent to Frontier Developments, the Planet Zoo and Planet Coaster guys, to bury the IP in an unmarked grave with RCT3; Frontier is also the same guys that screwed Haemimont Games games…

> Now, it is also worth mentioning that Chris Sawyer is anti-open source, so he probably personally approves of trying to steal money from OpenTTD players, even if he isn't personally getting a cut of it. It's pretty rude to put something like that on him if he hasn't actually said that.

The closest thing was his representative saying something: https://www.reddit.com/r/rct/comments/x6gh81/til_chris_sawye...

"The project has no blessing or support from Chris Sawyer and our view, it is both unethical and unlawful, involving infringements that may in some territories be criminal as well as a violation of Chris Sawyer's rights and those of his licensees - all of which remain reserved.

RollerCoaster Tycoon Classic, distributed by Atari, contains RCT and RCT2 rebuilt for modern operating systems under Chris's own direction.

Sincerely

Guy Herbert Director

Marjacq The Space 235 High Holborn LONDON WC1V 7DN"

But not Chris Sawyer.

Re: Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam

#95

Post by 999900000999 »

anthk wrote: post #63
999900000999 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people who still buy RTC only do so to get the assets for OpenRTC2. Atari is in a really weird spot, the rights have changed hands so much. It would be nice if they offered a paid version of OpenRTC with the assets bundled. Ohh well

You can just legally get the ones from the demo file in ZIP format.

Naw.

That's disrespectful to the spirit of Atari looking the other way.

I've own RC2 for a very very long time. Either way it's like 10$

Re: Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam

#96

Post by simonh »

singpolyma3 wrote: post #65
stephbook wrote: post #51

Honestly fair and understandable. OpenTTD builds on TTD (it's right there in the name.) You aren't forced to play OpenTTD and you aren't forced to get it on Steam/GoG. It's acceptable.

"builds on" in concept and by using the same three letters. Not builds on in a legal sense

It’s tricky. It started out by disassembling the commercial binaries. There may not be any original code left, but it’s certainly not a clean room project.

Re: Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam

#97

Post by larsiusprime »

Chaosvex wrote: post #84
altairprime wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The downsides of putting “TTD” in the name “OpenTTD” is a certain level of vulnerability to the original creator (or a rights inheritor) deciding it’s worth their time to care again someday. I suspect this will do more for the TTD community than it will harm it, though; any modern sale of TTD is targeted precisely at the folks who would take mortal offense at harm to OpenTTD, and $10 (which would have been merely $5…

It's similar to Valve and Dota2. We all know what it means but officially, it isn't actually DotA and doesn't stand for anything. They will never refer to the game as Defense of the Ancients. Seems to have worked for them. Worth noting that the Atari of today is a shell corporation that has precisely zero to do with the original.

IceFrog was on the Dota2 team, and valve owns the trademark

Re: Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam

#98

Post by fwipsy »

singpolyma3 wrote: post #60
TuxMark5 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My issue with this argument is that I'm not sure how much of OpenTTD is their IP. OpenTTD has been development for so long that I doubt that any original disassembly remnants remain in the latest version of OpenTTD. The only true piece of IP that OpenTTD may use is the name (the TTD part of OpenTTD) and the graphics, the latter of which being the more important one. However, as far as I know, OpenTTD devs have create…

Also "TTD" is hardly a name you can claim. It's three letters that don't make a word.

KFC would like a word.

Re: Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam

#99

Post by Chaosvex »

larsiusprime wrote: post #97
Chaosvex wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's similar to Valve and Dota2. We all know what it means but officially, it isn't actually DotA and doesn't stand for anything. They will never refer to the game as Defense of the Ancients. Seems to have worked for them. Worth noting that the Atari of today is a shell corporation that has precisely zero to do with the original.

IceFrog was on the Dota2 team, and valve owns the trademark

It's far more complicated than that and ended up in court. They own the commercial rights after a legal battle with Blizzard (and Riot was in the fray, somewhere), who retained some rights to the name. Valve's 'Dota' doesn't legally stand for anything because it'd be a direct reference to Warcraft 3 (Ancients), just as TTD can be said to not legally stand for Transport Tycoon Deluxe.

That's the entire point that you've simultaneously acknowledged and missed.

IceFrog didn't start DotA, either. He had no claim to the name.

TL;DR there's complicated history behind it and much money was spent arguing over it.

Re: Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam

#100

Post by jonathanlydall »

nout wrote: post #36

What is the story with OpenGFX then? It sounds like OpenTTD is completely new codebase and OpenGFX (which I also helped with) is completely new graphics. Why does one have to pay for that?

It seems to me one does not have to pay for it.

OpenTTD can be downloaded for free off the website, but if you want it through Steam it’s only available in a $10 bundle.

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