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Militaries are scrambling to create their own Starlink

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Re: Militaries are scrambling to create their own Starlink

#91
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't simultaneously argue that NATO is a "protection racket" for the US to sell weapons and control European foreign policy, and also argue that the EU would be in trouble without the current levels of US participation. Either NATO is a scam that exploits Europe, or it's a security umbrella that Europe needs. The "protection racket", in particular, is very dishonest. The US has spent 3-4% of GDP on defense for d…

> You can't simultaneously argue that NATO is a "protection racket" for the US to sell weapons and control European foreign policy, and also argue that the EU would be in trouble without the current levels of US participation. Sure I can. I can both deny you the means to defend yourself, forcing you to rely on me for protection. That's the definition of a protection racket. > The US has spent 3-4% of GDP on defense f…

Ignoring the ... less substantive portions of your response

> I can both deny you the means to defend yourself, forcing you to rely on me for protection. That's the definition of a protection racket.

The US didn't deny Europe the means to defend itself. Europe chose not to build those means because it was cheaper to rely on the US. These were domestic political choices made by governments whose voters preferred social programs over defense budgets. A protection racket requires coercion; what the EU received is much closer to a subsidy.

> This is revisionist history at best. The US has done their best to undermine and dismantle European social programs.

Can you cite a specific example? The US has broadly pushed for capitalist markets or free trade via policy, but "done their best to undermine and dismantle European social programs" is a very strong claim without evidence. Norway's sovereign wealth fund being "tolerated" because of strategic positioning is, at best, a conspiracy theory. There has been some tension over Norway divesting in American companies for political reasons, but that's hardly the claim you've made.

> America was protecting Israel's trade routes. Let's be clear. European trade routes largely just rerouted around the Cape of Good Hope.

Rerouting around the Cape added weeks of delay and a high monetary cost to European shipping. Just because European ships could reroute doesn't mean the European economy wasn't significantly impacted. Why did the European trade association publicly beg for more governments to join the operation if the Red Sea shipping was only about Israel?

> You can't both have a protection racket and expect military help

You expect America to adopt a one-way obligation where it provides for the defense of its allies, and receives no help in return? Why wouldn't that deal fall apart?

> Yes, literally nobody wanted the US and Israel to launch an unnecessary, unprovoked and ill-planned war on Iran

You can disagree with the decision to strike Iran. But when Iran retaliates by launching missiles and drones into 12 different countries (11 of which had not participated in the initial strikes against Iran in any way), the question of whether allies will support defensive operations is separate from whether they endorsed the initial strikes.

> Not a single defense analyst would even seriously consider such a prospect

No country would seriously consider it a prospect because the entire might of the US Armed Forces would immediately engage anyone who tried. This despite the fact that Canada has anemic defense spending, a large arctic border with Russia, and strategic assets I'm sure Russia would love to have.

Re: Militaries are scrambling to create their own Starlink

#92
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a separate entity, StarShield, that the US military uses. I think it's a fully separate set of satellites, but I'm not 100% on that.

IIRC it’s separate sats but same backhaul and they also leverage the same terminals?

That seems entirely plausible. I based my comment on one of Elon's tweets (xeets?) about it: https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2028261823678759335?s=20

Re: Militaries are scrambling to create their own Starlink

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many people believe that the US annexing Canada is a higher probability than either China or Russia doing so. All three are very low probabilities. I believe those people are being a bit silly, and their position probably comes from a strong dislike of Trump as a person, and not a genuine belief. Russia annexed a warm-water port and then shortly after attempted to incorporate Ukraine as part of a plan to remake the…

Russia might have the desire to annex Canada, but they don't have the capability. China might have the capability, but they don't have the desire. Only US has both the capability and the desire.

The US doesn't have a desire to annex Canada; that's very silly. And the reason Russia doesn't have the capability is because of Canada's alliance with the US.

Re: Militaries are scrambling to create their own Starlink

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China also had made industry espionage their way to go in these things. They are not even hiding it anymore. It's almost comical how much they copied SpaceX. And I'd be surprised if they hadn't supply-chained themselves into some level of access in all the big aerospace corpos by now. But Europe? Developing this kind of stuff from scratch in a few years without an unregulated messy startup ecosystem and no army of st…

>China also had made industry espionage their way to go in these things. Few layman know this but France is one of the biggest industrial espionage players active in the US and Europe, after Israel of course. In fact, according to Wikileaks diplomatic cables from Berlin quote: "France is the country that conducts the most industrial espionage [in Europe], even more than China or Russia." Basically, every nation on th…

Diplomatic cables are not a source of truth, they are heavily biased. The fact they had to be stolen does not give them more weight. There is a lot of bias in US governmental opinion on french technology that such a small country cannot be so advanced without stealing; opinion which started with the french nuclear and space program. My opinion on those discourses about France, China or the USSR in the past are just mostly propaganda from the US MIC to ensure continued funding.

Re: Militaries are scrambling to create their own Starlink

#95
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a separate entity, StarShield, that the US military uses. I think it's a fully separate set of satellites, but I'm not 100% on that.

IIRC it’s separate sats but same backhaul and they also leverage the same terminals?

Starshield means multiple things, or really it is SpaceX business unit with military. Starshield is the name for US military buying Starlink service. It is also SpaceX building Starlink-based satellites for the military. This doesn't have to be communications, the first ones were missile defense trackers.

I think the custom satellites came first and they rebranded the communications after it.

Re: Militaries are scrambling to create their own Starlink

#96
I hope this doesn’t continue unabated. LEO pollution of all kinds is liable to get out of hand. From particulates on re-entry combustion, gases from launch rockets, to light pollution from the orbiting swarm… seems like there’s too much traffic up there.

Re: Militaries are scrambling to create their own Starlink

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia might have the desire to annex Canada, but they don't have the capability. China might have the capability, but they don't have the desire. Only US has both the capability and the desire.

The US doesn't have a desire to annex Canada; that's very silly. And the reason Russia doesn't have the capability is because of Canada's alliance with the US.

A sizable minority of the US population has the desire to annex Canada.

If Canada was not allied with the US, Russia would still not have the capability. And the reason for that is Ukraine.

Re: Militaries are scrambling to create their own Starlink

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>China also had made industry espionage their way to go in these things. Few layman know this but France is one of the biggest industrial espionage players active in the US and Europe, after Israel of course. In fact, according to Wikileaks diplomatic cables from Berlin quote: "France is the country that conducts the most industrial espionage [in Europe], even more than China or Russia." Basically, every nation on th…

Diplomatic cables are not a source of truth, they are heavily biased. The fact they had to be stolen does not give them more weight. There is a lot of bias in US governmental opinion on french technology that such a small country cannot be so advanced without stealing; opinion which started with the french nuclear and space program. My opinion on those discourses about France, China or the USSR in the past are just m…

>Diplomatic cables are not a source of truth, they are heavily biased.

As opposed to...?

Re: Militaries are scrambling to create their own Starlink

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd broadly agree that EU is pretty behind the curve. But I think China is probably only ~5 years max behind the curve in terms of Starlink. But in terms of defense needs, I don't think you actually need the thousands and thousands for reasonable returns. DoD/NRO has bought maybe ~500 Starshields ( https://www.fool.com/investing/2024/03/26/spacex-starshield-... ) from SpaceX. I think China is well within reach of bei…

China did 92 launches in 2025. If they only need to put up 500, and if they can put up 22 per launch like SpaceX can, they have the capability now, let alone 5 years from now.

i don't get why more folks aren't just going for the much cheaper option like this https://www.solaris-suborbital.space/

Re: Militaries are scrambling to create their own Starlink

#100
post #22

I think the next big war will involve a kessler syndrome, not because people start firing off anti-satellite weapons (since there's a strong component of MAD in doing that) but because the belligerents will have their own multi-thousand satellite constellations in orbit and they will quit coordinating with one another on collision avoidance.

Starlink is redeploying to 300 miles. Many consider Kessler to be impossible at 300 miles. Any unpowered satellite at a 300 mile orbit will deorbit within a couple of months. But a collision means fragments which deorbit faster because they have a higher surface/weight ratio, and because orbit disturbances lower that time considerably. Any single disturbance that raises aphelion lowers perihelion.

Would collisions cause debris to be ejected into a higher orbit? Although I guess as long as the debris does not pick up any significant speed boost, its orbit would be elliptical and would just collide with Earth (burn up on re-entry)?
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