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Vite 8.0 Is Out

vite.dev

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Re: Vite 8.0 Is Out

#91
post #82
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I want to strip my types?

This feels like a ridiculous thread that captures everything wrong with modern Javascript ecosystem. It's grown into a product of cults and attempted zingers rather than pragmatic or sensible technical discussions about what we should and shouldn't expect to be able to do with an individual programming language. edit: to clarify, I assume there needs to be a basical level of comprehension of programming languages to…

How goes that saying?... always assume ignorance or malice will getcha

Re: Vite 8.0 Is Out

#92
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We saw 12m -> 2m on one of our biggest projects. Incredible really.

It blows my mind that there is a 12m build for a JavaScript application. How may lines of code is this app?

My banking site takes 10 seconds to LOAD...I hate thinking how long it must take them to compile it

Re: Vite 8.0 Is Out

#93
post #82
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I want to strip my types?

This feels like a ridiculous thread that captures everything wrong with modern Javascript ecosystem. It's grown into a product of cults and attempted zingers rather than pragmatic or sensible technical discussions about what we should and shouldn't expect to be able to do with an individual programming language. edit: to clarify, I assume there needs to be a basical level of comprehension of programming languages to…

The current state of Javascript is you _have_ to remove types; I was pointing out I can think of reasons why I sometimes wouldn't want to. (Admittedly in a glib manor; though on this site many prefer that to four paragraphs)

Re: Vite 8.0 Is Out

#94
post #77
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're already passing over the sources to strip the types, why would you also not do tree-shaking and minifications?

Why would I want to strip my types?

Maybe because TypeScript is not valid JavaScript (yet)? If you don't strip types, your code doesn't work.

Re: Vite 8.0 Is Out

#95
As I am interested in long time maintainability (should still work in 10 years) with my projects I am just using esbuild directly. I am not interested in adjusting my projects, just because things changed under the hood in "wrappers" like Vite and I suddenly have a lot of work.

Re: Vite 8.0 Is Out

#96
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is especially weird because JavaScript was not supposed to be processed at all! This is all wrong if you ask me. Web development should strive to launch unchanged sources in the browser. TypeScript also was specifically designed so engine could strip types and execute result code. These build tools should not exist in the first place.

JavaScript was not supposed to a lot of things.

Steve Jobs decided differently when he hated on ActionScript.

10 years ago this sentence probably would have start a flame war. ;-)

Re: Vite 8.0 Is Out

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like Wordpress inasmuch as it’s shoving a tool in places that don’t make sense. React is great for SPAs but if I wanted pre-rendered static content I’d use a different tool.

why? jsx is a great language for templating, the ui being a function of state is an incredible model. i am not a huge nextjs fan but React, mdx and friends are great for pre-rendered static content

Isn’t all templates language that way (blade, jade,…)? The main selling point of JSX is being a DSL for React, which present a functional model instead of the imperative paradigm of the DOM API.

Re: Vite 8.0 Is Out

#98

Yeah, it makes you wonder how much computing power the industry has wasted over the years on tools that nobody questioned because "that's just how long builds take." We planned our work around it, joked about creating breaks, and built entire caching layers to work around it. Kudos to the Vite maintainers!

Build performance has been a pet topic for me for quite some time when I realized I was wasting so much times waiting for stuff to build 14 years ago. The problem is especially endemic in the Java world. But also in the backend world in general. I've seen people do integration tests where 99% of the time is spend creating and recreating the same database over and over again (some shitty ruby project more than a decade ago). That took something like 10 minutes.

With Kotlin/Spring Boot, compilation is annoyingly slow. That's what you get with modern languages and rich syntax. Apparently the Rust compiler isn't a speed daemon either. But tests are something that's under your control. Unit tests should be done in seconds/milliseconds. Integration tests are where you can make huge gains if you are a bit smart.

Most integration tests are not thread safe and make assumptions about running against an empty database. Which if you think about it, is exactly how no user except your first user will ever use your system.

The fix for this is 1) allow no cleanup between tests 2) randomize data so there are no test collisions between tests and 3) use multiple threads/processes to run your tests to 1 database that is provisioned before the tests and deleted after all tests.

I have a fast mac book pro that runs our hundreds of spring integration tests (proper end to end API tests with redis, db, elasticsearch and no fakes/stubs) in under 40 seconds. It kind of doubles as a robustness and performance test. It's fast enough that I have codex just trigger that on principle after every change it makes.

There's a bit more to it of course (e.g. polling rather than sleeping for assertions, using timeouts on things that are eventually happening, etc.). But once you have set this up once, you'll never want to deal with sequentially running integration tests again. Having to run those over and over again just sucks the joy out of life.

And with agentic coding tools having fast feedback loops is more critical than ever.

Re: Vite 8.0 Is Out

#99
post #85

Outsider question: why use Rollup when Esbuild exist? Is esbuild not enough for production builds?

it is not. lack of plugin support is sufficient to block adoptions among other things.

but it has plugin support? what kind of plugins you mean?

Re: Vite 8.0 Is Out

#100

Yeah, it makes you wonder how much computing power the industry has wasted over the years on tools that nobody questioned because "that's just how long builds take." We planned our work around it, joked about creating breaks, and built entire caching layers to work around it. Kudos to the Vite maintainers!

I wonder what will be the parallel hindsight about waste, but for matrix multiplications, in a few years.
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