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TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

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Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#91

Post by wat10000 »

j_walter wrote: post #10
QuercusMax wrote: post #4

Like other post-9/11 things like DHS and ICE, we need to abolish TSA since it doesn't actually keep anyone safe, and actively harms people.

So just get rid of TSA and have no security? They find hundreds of guns in carry on baggage every year, but that should be no big deal right? They didn't force this person through the scanner, they could have asked for a supervisor and discussed the situation. Don't trust the people at the bottom of any organization if you have a concern.

So we're supposed to trust people at the bottom of this organization to detect and safely confiscate a terrorist's firearm, but not to follow their own policies about alternative search procedures?

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#92

Post by lokar »

kube-system wrote: post #15
QuercusMax wrote: post #4

Like other post-9/11 things like DHS and ICE, we need to abolish TSA since it doesn't actually keep anyone safe, and actively harms people.

I do think there's an advantage to third-party security, but they need to be properly trained -- airline-managed security has perverse incentives because of their profit motive.

SFO has its own security, they seem better then TSA

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#93

Post by kube-system »

bigbuppo wrote: post #68
kube-system wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think there's an advantage to third-party security, but they need to be properly trained -- airline-managed security has perverse incentives because of their profit motive.

Perverse profit motive like them not losing a big expensive aircraft, or having a massive loss of confidence in the airline to keep customers safe that causes them to go bankrupt?

If the only risk they care about is a hull loss or reputation, then yes, that's an example of a perverse profit motive, because there are other threats to life and limb that exist.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#94

Post by to11mtm »

ssl-3 wrote: post #50
SunshineTheCat wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea I once had a TSA individual take my 85mm f1.2 RF series Canon lens out of its case and hold it up to the light to "inspect it." I said, "can you please be careful with that? It's a $3,000 lens..." The person cut me off and flatly stated: "Excuse me sir, I know what I'm doing..." The great thing is that if the person had dropped it, they would've faced zero consequences and I would be out a lens which was central…

I don't intend for this to sound like an excuse. I don't fly often, and almost never with anything expensive. But I am curious: Can objects like expensive precision optics be insured against damage from the TSA? Is that a thing that regular people can easily find coverage for?

It kinda depends.

For instance, Many insurers offer something akin to 'Valuable Property Insurance' (At least that's what mine is called) and for personal use it covers drop/breaks as well as theft.

You typically need proof of ownership; my insurer lets me upload that, so I usually make a point to upload a copy of the invoice/receipt as well as the camera/lens and closeup of the serial number (even better if the invoice has the S/N present!). That's more important for high dollar items typically.

-HOWEVER-

That's for personal use. A while back I actually hit a coverage threshold where my insurer sent me a letter basically saying "Hey, just so you know, you are not covered for business use". (I don't use for business, I just figured it was a cheaper hobby than a boat)

Edited to add:

FWIW the VPP policy is separate from a homeowners policy, however insurers may or may not (depending on state law etc) be able to use a claim on a different policy to impact rates/etc.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#95

Post by lokar »

nostrademons wrote: post #47
Buttons840 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say abolish TSA. That's a "how"; let me ask you about outcomes to better understand. Are you suggesting that the level of security at airports be reduced? Are you suggesting that people and object that get onto planes be given less scrutiny?

TSA was never necessary, it was all theater to begin with. The median number of terrorism deaths per year in the U.S. for all years between 1970-2017 was 4 [1]. You have always been about 10x more likely to die from being struck by lightning than by being killed by a terrorist. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States... .

And for 9/11, the only change that actually matters is strengthening the cockpit door and keeping it locked.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#96

Post by ekjhgkejhgk »

lokar wrote: post #89
ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #39

I flew to the USA a few years ago and TSA staff were the most gratuitously rude people I've met in airports in my life. Complete brain dead losers.

LHR security is just as bad IME

Get the fuck outta here.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#97

Post by lokar »

dsr_ wrote: post #19
j_walter wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just get rid of TSA and have no security? They find hundreds of guns in carry on baggage every year, but that should be no big deal right? They didn't force this person through the scanner, they could have asked for a supervisor and discussed the situation. Don't trust the people at the bottom of any organization if you have a concern.

They miss more guns than they find. They miss more knives than they find.* They did, in fact, summon a supervisor, who lied to her. *I am of the opinion that, since 9/11, passengers should be encouraged to have knives rather than discouraged. Knives won't get through the cockpit door; no one will open the cockpit doors for a hostage anymore.

Given how unruly and belligerent some passengers have become I think flight crews would correctly object to allowing knives.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#98

Post by wat10000 »

youarentrightjr wrote: post #20
hparadiz wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad that this is getting down voted. What have we become.

There's been a slow shift here over the past decade, from "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" to "If you don't agree with what I think a nanny state should be doing you're a terrible person" What I wonder is if this is brought on by a demographic shift or a viewpoint shift among the same demographic.

There was a pretty much instantaneous shift on a certain Tuesday morning in September of 2001. I haven't noticed much of a change since then. The whole national mood has been "better safe than sorry" for anything vaguely terrorism-adjacent ever since.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#99

Post by kube-system »

realityfactchex wrote: post #88
whatsupdog wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do that too. My reason is I don't want unneeded radiation. My experience is they make it as difficult as possible. They first ignore you couple of times, pretend they don't know what you are asking for, and finally they make you wait a long time, just standing there waiting for someone to show up to do the pat down. But I know their antics now and show up with plenty of time to spare.

I always opt out, too, also because I don't trust their machines after reading enough stuff like https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/iaurm/cancer_clus... or https://www.propublica.org/article/u-s-government-glossed-ov... and then learning enough about how it was all for theater anyway. Cool tech, but I don't want it scanning my junk especially, no thanks. I'll just apply Betteridge's law of headlines to the ar…

Y'all should just get pre-check (or GE) so you can walk through the metal detector instead.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#100

Post by lokar »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #25
MostlyStable wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that TSA should be done away with, I'm afraid that it wouldn't actually change what airport security looks like in most places. At this point, since people have gotten used to it, my guess is that if Airports took over their own security again (or went back to however it worked pre-TSA), they would maintain about the same standards and procedures in an effort to avoid blame in the case that something ha…

On the contrary, I think airports would desperately like to do better. Airports are hated ; improving the experience of airport security is extremely important to them.

If you pay enough, you can in fact get a much better experience (in some airports).
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