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/e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

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Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#91

Post by goldenarm »

auggierose wrote: post #66
goldenarm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AOSP dev went private, and Google is slower and slower at releasing the source, now twice a year. Worse, many stock apps like the Dialer and Gallery went closed-source years ago. But the source isn't the point, it's the governance. Just like Chrome, having the source is not enough to guarantee an open platform. Sure you can disable telemetry flags. But you cannot afford to maintain an important feature Google wants t…

The problem is, if you cannot afford to maintain it, how could you afford to both build AND maintain your own version of it?

Building and maintainance cost are not linear, especially when you inherit legacy code. The AOSP codebase isn't great, is 4x bigger than the Linux Kernel, and full of "Ship now, patch later" mess.

But I agree that it is a significant endeavor. But the OSS community succeeded in similar projects before, and the current state of the Linux desktop makes me hopeful.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#92

Post by dminik »

auggierose wrote: post #66
goldenarm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AOSP dev went private, and Google is slower and slower at releasing the source, now twice a year. Worse, many stock apps like the Dialer and Gallery went closed-source years ago. But the source isn't the point, it's the governance. Just like Chrome, having the source is not enough to guarantee an open platform. Sure you can disable telemetry flags. But you cannot afford to maintain an important feature Google wants t…

The problem is, if you cannot afford to maintain it, how could you afford to both build AND maintain your own version of it?

I don't think it's true, but ...

"Google built Android to be impossible to maintain without them."

Could be a very genuine answer to that question. Do you really need all of Android? What if you can build a very similar thing at a fraction of the size.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#93

Post by microtonal »

soufron wrote: post #60
_ache_ wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must agree, you are right, GOS is only on Pixel phones. But we have to keep in mind that /e/ has a lot of problems, the only one solved is sending data to Google. The security aspect of the OS is problematic and some key elements of a privacy seem questioning (AI integration, commercial collaborations, ...). Fix: IA => AI typo and various English errors.

Like what problems? I am using /e/ daily for myself and my family, and it's working like a charm.

Uploading speech-to-text to OpenAI? Regular communication with Google? Using Google for assisted GPS? Giving a bunch of Google apps privileged access (if you need them for e.g. Android Auto)?

https://www.kuketz-blog.de/e-datenschutzfreundlich-bedeutet-...

https://gitlab.e.foundation/e/os/GmsCore/-/blob/a9e102567518...

https://forum.fairphone.com/t/e-os-betrays-users-privacy-ope...

https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm

Well and besides that only shipping ASBs and no other security updates outside major Android releases (and both usually late). Using heavily outdated kernel trees (e.g. FP4 is using a Linux kernel patch level that hasn't been updated since 2020!), outdated vendor firmware blobs, etc.

It might work, but it is not very secure, nor very private.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#94

Post by Wilder7977 »

raphinou wrote: post #79

I have been using e/OS but moved away when an upgrade to the next version required to manually wipe the device. I could cope with the little inconveniences of a degoogled phone, but wiping the device myself following a unclear procedure was too much for me. My phone is not a hacking subject. It's a tool. Still, it worked reasonably well and I would have upgraded and kept using it if the upgrade had been easier.

I am on e/OS since 2021 with a FP3 and, for what is worth, I never had to reinstall, wipe or anything. My phone just had it's 5th birthday and it has been a single continuous set of updates.

I know the versions differ by model, so perhaps your model was not as well supported.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#95

Post by microtonal »

einpoklum wrote: post #72
izacus wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

/e/OS is Android, meaning it's still critically dependent on goodwill of Google to continue releasing their work as part of AOSP. So if you're trying to be a silly purist, then /e/OS doesn't fit either. If you're not, getting a Pixel will significantly enhance your safety since they're better supported for security patches and better designed in hardware when it comes to security.

Let's explore this a little further. I think it is legitimate to be a purist about smartphones, but I don't think the GP is. So, let's talk about the non-purist situation: Users like us want to de-google. But we are not willing to make all of the sacrifices that purists do. The question is then, what can we use (and - what projects can we support financially). Now, we can use GrapheneOS if we have Google Pixel's. But…

Where are those decent under 100 USD unlockable smartphones?

suggesting we strengthen our ties to Google in order to de-Google is fundamentally problematic

You may have seen that they are working with Motorola to release GrapheneOS-capable phones.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#96

Post by dminik »

Arch-TK wrote: post #30
miroljub wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But GrapheneOS doesn't exist. It works only on a few devices created by Google, so their claim of being degoogled is a bit funny.

Google's hardware is just hardware. It is not locked down like the hardware of many other manufacturers. Moreover, it's the only such hardware which also allows you, the user, to lock it down for your own security. GrapheneOS is not just focused around avoiding Google, it's more accurately focused around security and user choice. The goal is to give you the option to avoid needing to rely on Google's spying or servic…

A large part of "degoogling" to me means "stop giving google money" and "cut off Google entirely from my life".

If I have to give Google a lot of money every 4-6 years to remain "de-googled" then I never was.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#97

Post by fsflover »

goldenarm wrote: post #47
Vinnl wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. I appreciate the vibes where this is coming from, but does it really? I think that assumes that everyone that works on this would work on a true open source OS otherwise, and that if they did, that would result in us breaking free from Android where we otherwise wouldn't. I'm not confident about either of those assumptions. Meanwhile I'll keep complainin…

There are more OSS devs active on Android ROMs than OSS devs working on independent mobile OSes. We are running out of time, and we are misallocating ressources. It's like bailing out water from the Titanic. We should prepare the lifeboats instead.

(GNU/)Linux on mobile is the true sustanable, independent OS. It relies on the existing, strong Linux development, natively runs existing Linux apps and guarantees you lifetime updates. What else do you need?

Sent from my Librem 5.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#98

Post by pferde »

HunOL wrote: post #84

I'm currently looking for a new Android phone. I don't like the Pixel and deep integration with Google. I looked at the Fairphone with /e/OS and the Pixel with GrapheneOS, but unfortunately there's no certainty that everything will work or where the boundary is between Google Android and "clean" Android. For example, it turned out that Android Auto is essentially Google Auto and I don't what find out what is dependen…

Pixel's "deep integration with Google" is in the OS, so if you replace the OS with GrapheneOS, there is no deep integration anymore.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#99

Post by goldenarm »

samrus wrote: post #87
goldenarm wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do agree, mobile OSS OSes are rough. My point is that we should help them instead of helping Google's toxic relationship. It happened with Chrome/Blink, and everyone already forgot that lesson. About hard-forking Android, no one was brave enough (pun intended) to do that for Chrome, considering the insane complexity and engineering costs (>$1B/y). (Only Apple was able to affort it with Webkit/Safari, but they are i…

I kinda dont see how both of you cant be right. We need a mobile OS that google isnt involved in. Why not use pure open source android to do it. It can only be cheaper than making it from scratch, since it has alot of work already done on it

(Copying my reply from below)

Building and maintainance cost are not linear, especially when you inherit legacy code. The AOSP codebase isn't great, is 4x bigger than the Linux Kernel, and full of "Ship now, patch later" mess.

But I agree that it is a significant endeavor. But the OSS community succeeded in similar projects before, and the current state of the Linux desktop makes me hopeful.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#100

Post by coldtea »

goldenarm wrote: post #9

Tweaking user-hostile OSes into user-friendly ones is impressive, but not sustainable. Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. Look at the AdBlocker crackdown of Google Chrome. Every single chrome-fork has shut down MV2 extensions, even Brave is about to do it, because it is impossible to maintain features that complex on a browser that Google spends >$1B/year to develop. Same story for /e/ and…

>Tweaking user-hostile OSes into user-friendly ones is impressive, but not sustainable. Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely.

To what?

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