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Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

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Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#91

Post by mrbukkake »

michalu wrote: post #85

Very typical arrogance of the so-called modern "artist" mind - "it was an adventure for me", getting an assignment to complement a great work of art and making it about herself. The problem with these modern artists is they're not working hard to improve a skill, but rather keep doing more of what comes easy hoping the world maybe recognizes their "natural genius" ... as a result they go hard on pushing that one thin…

this comment is very typical arrogance of the modern computer nerd raised on capeshit hahahha

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#92

Post by jfengel »

lakkal wrote: post #57
duskwuff wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have to read it as having a very unreliable narrator. Perhaps even Bilbo himself. :) One can imagine him telling a heavily fictionalized version of his adventures to some impressionable young hobbits.

That's how I've always imagined it - The Hobbit as published is the story told as if intended for children (hobbit or otherwise), but the 'actual' in-universe events were just as dark and realistic as the tone of The Lord of the Rings .

He did try to rewrite The Hobbit in the literary style of LotR, but it just didn't work and he abandoned it after a few chapters.

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#93

Post by JrProgrammer »

iambateman wrote: post #35

It has a real “where the wild things are” feel…which is the art used to decorate my local library. A lot of people have chosen to take the Hobbit as seriously as its older brother—-including Peter Jackson—-and have missed out on the absurd, beautiful childishness of the whole thing. The Hobbit does a wonderful job of introducing the ideas and characters of LotR in a way which is accessible for children and I think th…

> A lot of people have chosen to take the Hobbit as seriously as its older brother

Do you refer to the LOTR trilogy as The Hobbit's older brother here? I was under the impression that The Hobbit was the first book in this saga?

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#94

Post by aaron695 »

Paracompact wrote: post #63
sarchertech wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s as valid as any art. But as an illustrated book, it’s lacking. If I had read this version as a kid, I’d be extremely confused as to why Gollum was 20 feet tall and wearing a flower crown. And then I’d be mad and consider it a bad illustration. (I’m aware some people think the original version didn’t specify his size. But the 1937 text states “Deep down here by the dark water lived old Gollum, a small slimy creat…

> (I’m aware some people think the original version didn’t specify his size. But the 1937 text states “Deep down here by the dark water lived old Gollum, a small slimy creature.”) This directly contradicts the article. I found the first edition online, and have determined you are mistaken. http://searcherr.work/The%20Hobbit%201st%20ed%20(1937).pdf Page 83: "Deep down here by the dark water lived old Gollum. I don't k…

[dead]

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#95

Post by vintermann »

bbddg wrote: post #13
jojobas wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moomins don't depict anything like saving the world, it's a whimsical universe dealing with whimsical non-issues. I can see why Tolkien lovers are upset at these even though I'm not really one of them.

Comet in moominland is about them learning about a comet heading towards earth that they believe is going to kill them all.

It is fantastically bleak, with the sea drying up, and that doomsday prophet reminding them that everything will be destroyed. Then the comet somehow misses, which they react to with a sort of dreamy, "oh. Right." and even the cake moominmom bakes to celebrate that they're not all dead after all, gets ruined because that damn doomsday prophet sits on it.

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#96

Post by fifilura »

fennecbutt wrote: post #86
taneq wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree that the post comes across as rude in tone, but it’s never explicitly disparaging. Might just be an overly direct tone (non-native English speaker, or maybe on the spectrum?)

Nah just sounds like people can't handle what they say being questioned as per usual. We should never take offense to being asked to clarify or explain when someone thinks we're wrong. I'd only be vaguely offended if they had no grounded reason to think that I'm wrong (and they'd be calling me out for the sake of calling me out). Communicating ideas is a part of tribalism too. Good brain chemicals when the tribe agre…

Yeah, my bad, after re-reading the original post. It was not particularly rude.

Apologies.

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#98

Post by zimpenfish »

Paracompact wrote: post #63
sarchertech wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s as valid as any art. But as an illustrated book, it’s lacking. If I had read this version as a kid, I’d be extremely confused as to why Gollum was 20 feet tall and wearing a flower crown. And then I’d be mad and consider it a bad illustration. (I’m aware some people think the original version didn’t specify his size. But the 1937 text states “Deep down here by the dark water lived old Gollum, a small slimy creat…

> (I’m aware some people think the original version didn’t specify his size. But the 1937 text states “Deep down here by the dark water lived old Gollum, a small slimy creature.”) This directly contradicts the article. I found the first edition online, and have determined you are mistaken. http://searcherr.work/The%20Hobbit%201st%20ed%20(1937).pdf Page 83: "Deep down here by the dark water lived old Gollum. I don't k…

Also (referencing a side comment) the only mention of the size of Gollum's boat in that PDF (and it may not even be his boat - I'm not an expert on the source material, just going off mentions of "boat" near "Gollum") seems to be "little black boat" but that's pretty quickly followed by it fitting 4 people at a time which isn't all that "little", really, and I think the large Gollum in the illustration could fit in a 4 person boat (albeit in a perhaps top-heavy fashion.)

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#99

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

i_think_so wrote: post #87
commieneko wrote: post #21

Those are wonderful! It's really interesting to see Jansson's take on the characters and settings. When I read _The Hobbit_ in the early 1970s, there was already a well established tradition of how to portray Tolkien's world. Jansson's seems very fresh to me. Also of interest, and probably just as upsetting to some, is Gene Deitch's version of _The Hobbit_ which was made in the mid 1960s in an attempt to retain the m…

Ugh. That video should have come with a flashing [INFORMATIONAL HAZARD] warning sign. Tolkien fans, beware. This may ruin your day.

It's quite alright. Done in a classic childrens' story illustration style, rather than the modern sleek style of CGI-heavy fantasy. Tastes may have changed a bit in the last 60 years or so.

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#100

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

galaxyLogic wrote: post #88
p-e-w wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Hobbit is today usually viewed through the lens of The Lord of the Rings , and The Lord of the Rings is viewed with the baggage of 70 years of post-Tolkien epic fantasy culture. Being deeply embedded in that culture myself, I must admit that these illustrations don’t appeal to me at all, and don’t match my mental imagery of the story. But I can see how they might have looked like a perfect fit to someone who read…

I inhaled Lord of the Rings on first reading. I lived inside it. And it had no illustrations except maps, right? But later when the movies came out they were a big disappointment for ne, they were not the world I had visited. And they were boring. Had I not read the books before, they might have been just fine.

Yeah, the (Peter Jackson) movies were basically LotR seen through the lens of decades of D&D and Warhammer Fantasy, a peculiar aesthetic which of course grew off LotR itself.

I'm guessing that Tolkien would have deeply hated it all with a burning passion.

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