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Smartphone market forecast to decline this year due to memory shortage

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Re: Smartphone market forecast to decline this year due to memory shortage

#91
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine the iphone is entirely powering down memory. Otherwise just unallocating memory won't change the power consumption.

Those aren’t the only two possibilities though.

What other possibility are there? By what mechanism are you suggesting that iPhones save power by keeping RAM usage low?

Re: Smartphone market forecast to decline this year due to memory shortage

#92

Somehow, with 12GB of RAM, I can't get my iPhone 17 Pro to keep more than a few safari tabs open without having them refresh when I come back from an app or two, and it makes me want to throw my phone across the train (Where the internet often cuts out!). A lot of software has been squandering the massive hardware gains that have been made. I hope this changes when it becomes a lot harder to throw hardware at the pro…

Very specific complaint that has nothing to do with the amount of ram you have, that’s a software choice in iOS. Kinda a tangent for a top comment.

Re: Smartphone market forecast to decline this year due to memory shortage

#93
post #69
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pixels only make sense if you are going to install Graphene. The Google OS is bloated with spyware.

On a Pixel phone you have only Google spyware. On another brand's phone you have all the same Google spyware, plus the spyware from that brand and a permanently locked bootloader.

You can remove 3rd party spyware/bloat in 15 minutes with Shizuka/canto and a usb cable and you won't notice anything changed in the phone. Unfortunately the Google spyware is so deeply integrated that you can't really do that unless you accept a ton of things not working - not just Google apps but also lots of third party apps that require Play services.

Re: Smartphone market forecast to decline this year due to memory shortage

#94
post #90
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Memory uses power, this is a major factor in why aggressively stopping things helps. There is a strong argument modern mobile goes too far for this.

This is an argument for having less memory on a hardware level. But once the DRAM is there, it uses power, whether or not it stores useful data or useless data. There's a reason why we say unused RAM is wasted RAM.

Powering down unused physical RAM is absolutely a thing on some systems. For one thing, it's required if you ever want to support physical memory hotplug. The real issue however is that the gain from not doing DRAM refresh is clearly negligible: it's no more than the difference between putting a computer to sleep (ACPI S3), or putting a phone to sleep in airplane mode - and powering it off.

Re: Smartphone market forecast to decline this year due to memory shortage

#95
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an argument for having less memory on a hardware level. But once the DRAM is there, it uses power, whether or not it stores useful data or useless data. There's a reason why we say unused RAM is wasted RAM.

Powering down unused physical RAM is absolutely a thing on some systems. For one thing, it's required if you ever want to support physical memory hotplug. The real issue however is that the gain from not doing DRAM refresh is clearly negligible: it's no more than the difference between putting a computer to sleep (ACPI S3), or putting a phone to sleep in airplane mode - and powering it off.

And you're saying Apple is doing that on the iPhone?

Re: Smartphone market forecast to decline this year due to memory shortage

#97
post #87

Over investment in AI data centers is having a huge negative impact all over the economy. Other sectors are missing out on investment limiting their growth and stalling the economy. Companies have reduced staff prematurely on the promise of productivity improvements that have not occurred and lost customers to terrible customer service and declining product quality. Many hardware launches are going to be delayed or n…

> Other sectors are missing out on investment limiting their growth and stalling the economy.

Would love to know what sectors you would say are obviously under invested. Sounds like an opportunity.

Re: Smartphone market forecast to decline this year due to memory shortage

#98

Somehow, with 12GB of RAM, I can't get my iPhone 17 Pro to keep more than a few safari tabs open without having them refresh when I come back from an app or two, and it makes me want to throw my phone across the train (Where the internet often cuts out!). A lot of software has been squandering the massive hardware gains that have been made. I hope this changes when it becomes a lot harder to throw hardware at the pro…

I was trying to upload a 300mb video via the local police's web interface, a very important matter. I had to set my phone screen to stay on for 30 minutes and then leave the web browser open without touching it. Disabling all power saving measures makes not difference. This was the only way I could get it to finish uploading. I'm on a pixel 8 pro with grapheneos. Same thing in both Firefox and vanadium. I don't think it runs out of ram, the system is just too trigger happy. The battery still doesn't last all day anyway.

Re: Smartphone market forecast to decline this year due to memory shortage

#99
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Memory uses power, this is a major factor in why aggressively stopping things helps. There is a strong argument modern mobile goes too far for this.

With dram, you have to refresh every cell within a periodic interval. Usually this is handled in hardware. It would be a crazy optimization if unused pages weren’t refreshed. There would have to be a decent amount of circuitry to decide that.

I'm not suggesting it exists, but I could plausibly see something where the range to refresh could be changed at runtime. If you could adjust refresh on your 8 GB phone in 1 GB intervals (refresh up to 1/2/4/8 GB etc; or refresh yes/no for each 1GB interval), the OS could be sure to put its memory at low addresses, and the OS could do memory compaction into lower addresses and disable refresh on higher addresses from time to time. Or ... I think there's apis for allocations for background memory vs foreground memory; if you allocate background memory at low addresses and foreground memory at high addresses, then when the OS wants to sleep, it kills the process logically and then turns off refresh on the ram ... when it wants to use it again later, it will have to zero the ram cause who knows what it'll have.

I don't work at that kind of level, so I dunno if the juice would be worth the squeeze (sleep with DRAM refresh is already very low power on phone scales), but it seems doable.

Re: Smartphone market forecast to decline this year due to memory shortage

#100
post #87

Over investment in AI data centers is having a huge negative impact all over the economy. Other sectors are missing out on investment limiting their growth and stalling the economy. Companies have reduced staff prematurely on the promise of productivity improvements that have not occurred and lost customers to terrible customer service and declining product quality. Many hardware launches are going to be delayed or n…

> Other sectors are missing out on investment limiting their growth and stalling the economy. Would love to know what sectors you would say are obviously under invested. Sounds like an opportunity.

The U.S. gov't is now committing a sizeable chunk of GDP to investments and subsidies to AI companies and data centers and has reduced overall investment in wind and solar.
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