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EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

environment.ec.europa.eu

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Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#91

Post by peterfirefly »

mentalgear wrote: post #13

The EU is displaying exactly the kind of political leadership we need in this topic: pro-consumer, pro-environment, and firmly against planned obsolescence. Removable batteries were the industry standard in the early days of mobile phones, and it worked perfectly. We only lost that standard when Apple’s 'walled garden' mindset infected the rest of the industry. The amount of avoidable e-waste generated since then is…

> Removable batteries were the industry standard in the early days of mobile phones, and it worked perfectly.

Phones back then were bad (so accommodating replaceable batteries was easy), and batteries degraded quickly (so it was a necessity).

Modern phones are smaller, need to be more water proof, stuffed to an unimaginable degree with components -- and modern batteries last a really long time.

I am not so sure it's a good idea to force them to become consumer replaceable again.

My iPhone SE (1st gen) ended up being pushed apart from the inside last year because the battery had swelled up. I could have had it replaced but the CPUs were a bit too weak for the modern world and the RAM too limited. A fresh new battery would not have upgraded the CPUs or the RAM.

Li-ion batteries have improved since 2016 so I expect the battery in my iPhone 16e to outlast the useful life of the CPUs and RAM in it.

> extract the remaining rare earths

More for the gold, I believe. There are youtubers who do it semi-professionally and are remarkably transparent about how they do it. It looks like the only really toxic fumes they contend with are a tiny bit of sulphuric acid vapour from their electrolytic baths.

I don't think we should ship the trash to Africa or poor parts of Asia. I don't see how replaceable batteries would have prevented my iPhone SE from becoming trash or have prevented my iPhone 16e from becoming trash in the future. Or preventing them from ending up in Africa/Asia, for that matter.

Edit: had accidentally written "back" in the first line when I meant "bad".

Edit 2: used the past tense by mistake ("expected the battery in my iPhone 16e").

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#92

Post by toyg »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #84
1718627440 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replaceable batteries mean that you can just buy two or more and just carry them around so you can charge them less often. Alternatively you can charge the battery at home while you are away with the phone and have no down time for charging. (Down time meaning you can't carry the phone around.)

Interestingly if people start to buy extra batteries as you suggest then this will completely defeat the stated purpose of having replaceable batteries! That being said, now they buy external power banks...

Buying an extra battery is very different from buying an entire new phone and in no way it would offset the environmental gain of not buying an entire new phone.

Please don't engage in argument for argument's sake.

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#93

Post by peterfirefly »

nephihaha wrote: post #90
mentalgear wrote: post #13

The EU is displaying exactly the kind of political leadership we need in this topic: pro-consumer, pro-environment, and firmly against planned obsolescence. Removable batteries were the industry standard in the early days of mobile phones, and it worked perfectly. We only lost that standard when Apple’s 'walled garden' mindset infected the rest of the industry. The amount of avoidable e-waste generated since then is…

I have such mixed feelings about the EU right now. This battery initiative is definitely a good idea, but I am not onboard with their constant attempts at censorship.

The problem is the member states -- and the voters in the member states. The EU is only a coordination mechanism for those states. It's nothing like the federal layer of the US, or the federal layer of Germany for that matter.

Many member states want censorship. Many MEPs want censorship.

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#94

Post by hermanzegerman »

audunw wrote: post #54
cyberrock wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU directive doesn't even compel them to have those kinds of removable batteries in the EU, because being removable with commercially available tools is considered compliant [0]. The topic has been too obfuscated with hype pieces. Still, it would be nice to not have to break glass and melt glue to open up phones. [0] https://repair.eu/news/making-batteries-removable-and-replac...

Yeah, thank god. As long as it’s easy to remove and replacement batteries can easily be purchased by individuals, I want my phone and battery glued, thank you very much. I like apples approach to removable battery glue. Though it needs an extra tool. These days it should be easy to make a cheap USB-C PD powered thing that supplies a good DC voltage.

The electricity-controlled glue in Apple's iPhone is made by Tesa, a German Glue company

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#95

Post by forinti »

Many moons ago I bought a TP-Link Neffos precisely because you could swap out the battery. The problem is that TP-Link never sold replacement batteries in my country. When I tried buying a couple from China, I got used ones that barely lasted a few months.

If producers aren't forced to sell batteries then we should at least mandate standard sizes that could be made by third parties.

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#96

Post by peterfirefly »

linohh wrote: post #79
mytailorisrich wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re. mobile phones it is because it allows sleeker and thinner design, and IMHO it wasn't that common to replace batteries, anyway. But, really this is a non-issue because if you need a new battery for you phone, including iphone and samsung, just get it replaced. That's not super common to need it (again) but there is no issue having it done. I had it done before. So overall I am skeptical that it will make a differe…

The point being made is that if batteries can be replaced without specialized tools and training, the chances of that being done could be higher, potentially leading to longer usage time and reduced e-waste.

Consider that modern Li-ion batteries are better than older Li-ion batteries (and much better than nickel-metal-hydrides). The need for user-replaceable batteries in modern phones is on par with (or realistically a lot lower) than the need for user-replaceable screens.

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#97

Post by mytailorisrich »

hermanzegerman wrote: post #89
mytailorisrich wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly if people start to buy extra batteries as you suggest then this will completely defeat the stated purpose of having replaceable batteries! That being said, now they buy external power banks...

No it won't. It's about reducing eWaste from the devices itself. Throwing away a whole device just because the battery is bad is much worse than just throwing away a worn out battery. My 9 year old ThinkPad T470 is doing well with his 3rd or 4rd battery (and a new SSD and more RAM). Also external powerbanks are pretty unpractical compared to a fresh new internal battery.

This is indeed a policy aimed at reducing e-waste, including resources and harmful substances from batteries.

So allow to find that "yay I can buy more batteries!" is a highly ironic response.

And again, all the statements that it this "obviously" better than possibly buying a new phone seem to lack any references to actual data...

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#98

Post by Reason077 »

mentalgear wrote: post #13

The EU is displaying exactly the kind of political leadership we need in this topic: pro-consumer, pro-environment, and firmly against planned obsolescence. Removable batteries were the industry standard in the early days of mobile phones, and it worked perfectly. We only lost that standard when Apple’s 'walled garden' mindset infected the rest of the industry. The amount of avoidable e-waste generated since then is…

Removable batteries were standard in the early days of mobile phones (and laptops) out of necessity: batteries in those days just weren’t very good. They didn’t last long, took hours to charge, and wore out relatively quickly. You’d carry a spare battery around and swap over when your first one ran out.

Now days, there is much less need for that because a charge lasts much longer, and if you do run low you can fast change in 30 minutes or so. Not buying extra spare batteries for every device means less e-waste, not more!

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#99

Post by peterfirefly »

layer8 wrote: post #63

Note that devices falling under the Ecodesign Regulation are exempt from this Battery Regulation, in particular smartphones and tablets, if they fulfill certain durability and repairability requirements (which are roughly already met today, at least by Apple). So we won’t be seeing more easily replaceable batteries in smartphones and tablets.

> in particular smartphones and tablets, if they fulfill certain durability and repairability requirements

Which is exactly the way it should be.

Re: EU mandates replaceable batteries by 2027 (2023)

#100

Post by bluebarbet »

hadrien01 wrote: post #19
shablulman wrote: post #6

[flagged]

Is this comment AI-generated? All recent comments from this account are two paragraphs-long, and are a vague retelling or the article.

My take: "Is this AI-generated?" is often the inadvertent compliment paid to those who can write decent English by those who can't.
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