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GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

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Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#91

Post by palata »

ramon156 wrote: post #18

Does anyone have a good grasp of the differences between GOS and /e/OS? I'm buying a Fairphone soon and was wondering what both are like

I have been using /e/OS for 5 years, and also GOS. My take is:

- If your phone is supported by GOS, you should go for GOS.

- If your phone is not supported by GOS, you should look carefully and compare between /e/OS and Stock Android.

I had a Fairphone 3, and after 5 years, /e/OS was outdated by 4 years w.r.t. the manufacturer updates. In other words, Stock Android coming from Fairphone was more secure than /e/OS on that Fairphone.

In my experience, /e/OS has a tendency to claim that they support everything, but they just can't, there is too much. And then they complain when GrapheneOS criticises the fact that some /e/OS users believe their phone is well supported but actually isn't. And GrapheneOS is not wrong: I realised I was in that case after 4 years with /e/OS.

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#92

Post by scheeseman486 »

realusername wrote: post #73
gf000 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

privacy != security. And sandboxed Google Play services serve both goals -- it runs the service as a regular android service, not an exceptional one that has a bunch of extra permissions. So you can allow/restrict it as you seem fit, while not "getting behind" on features/apps that mandate it.

I disagree, privacy is an essential part of security, if there's no privacy, then there's no security. That's also why I don't keep anything important on my phone as I don't trust what's going on there despite having all the secure features that you would want.

Other way around, actually. It's possible to make concessions to privacy, like providing crash reports, or running applications in sandboxes which limits what they can harvest, while keeping the platform secure.

Any privacy you have on a system is reliant on no one tampering with that system and on software behaving itself. Without security, you can't trust the system to implement any privacy.

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#93

Post by lejalv »

palata wrote: post #80
noirscape wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GOS creates a complete bunker of a phone that can provide defense against pretty much all but the most dedicated state level actors. If you're worried that someone would steal your phone specifically to target you, Graphene will protect against that. Securitywise it's hard to argue against them, although GOS tends to sacrifice usability in favor of security, which leads to odd decisions. Their device depreciation tim…

I have been a user of /e/OS for 5 years, and also of GOS and would like to share my opinion on this: > it's worth noting that the GOS community is absurdly toxic to anyone doing anything privacy-related that isn't under the banner of GOS What I have seen (and I am not involved in any of those projects) is that GOS does care a lot about security, has a higher quality in that regard than anything else, and tends to be…

/e/OS/ was bad with updates for a long time (I had to switch 2022). IodéOS is very good at it, in my experience (I have used all three)

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#94

Post by nusl »

lambdaone wrote: post #75

It's a sign of how far we've come that this article says "Break Free from Google and Apple", not "Break Free from Google, Apple and Microsoft".

People seem to fondly remember the Microsoft phones. If they made them now though, I can't really imagine what sort of Copilot-filled abomination they would be.

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#95

Post by 1dom »

darkwater wrote: post #74
palata wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When there isn't a perfect solution, the next best thing is... the next best thing :-).

Unless the next best thing makes you think you are already achieving the "perfect solution" for what you think you care about, but in truth does not. I'm not a mobile phone security expert but my feeling is that in the case of GrapheneOS - which target is probably high-profile people at risk of state actors et similia attacks - a zero-day in the closed source firmware from Qualcomm will probably screw you anyway. I u…

I think the appeal and use case for Graphene and similar OS for most users is the Google/privacy/ownership type argument.

I do understand your point that people at risk of state level attacks might get a false surface level appearance of defence from this. But then anyone who's a target of state level attacks and is making OS decisions based on a surface level understanding of the tech is not going to have a good time anyway.

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#96

Post by cartoonworld »

mentalgear wrote: post #13

This is especially interesting in regard to the recent HN dicussion on spyware by for-profit intel firms having access to Whatsapp, Telegram, Signal, etc. ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47033976 ) through OS-level no-click hijacks. I wonder how secure GrapheneOS is in that regard, and what the other contenders are?

GrapheneOS have hardened_malloc which is a huge advantage, I think. It makes the weird machines problem much harder. I would say be very careful, because you can still get previews of images, or old and weird media formats that could be exploitable, and android/GrapheneOS doesn't have the same sorts of policy as say Apple with the iMessage blast door. They control safari, etc.

Android's attack surface seems pretty jagged. For example there is only one webrender engine on iOS, where you can run anything you like on Android/GrapheneOS.

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#98

Post by lejalv »

arein3 wrote: post #40
haunter wrote: post #29

Break free from Android... by installing Android? I'm not sure it's really breaking free when the first task to do is intall Google Play Services so your banking app works. Sounds like we can't actually breaking free from Android and iOS. Maybe with Linux like the Fedora Atomic for mobile devices? https://github.com/pocketblue/pocketblue Or PostmarketOS? https://postmarketos.org/ Even then banking would probably only…

And the 50% of banking apps still wont work because it wants an android signed by google. And no tap to pay. Hopefully the new EU banking system will work on Graphene and Ill switch back

I would put the focus on having capable web-banking. I never install the banking app on my phone.

I must also be getting old, because I don't get the big fuss about NFC payments. Firstly, I'd never use them if they go through Google/Apple. But even when/if they don't, it's not a big deal to use a card, isn't it (if you hate cash)?

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#100

Post by ozlikethewizard »

mnmatin wrote: post #86

Wallet Apps and Tap-to-pay do not work. Even got banned from PayPal. Android needs an architectural change from the ground up.

I mean you're not degoogling yourself if you put all your transactions through a google server. Cash if possible, card if not.

(Also it is possible to do these things if you root your phone, but caries its own risks and I wouldn't recommend. Ending your dependency on third party processors is probably the best outcome)

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