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Ministry of Justice orders deletion of the UK's largest court reporting database

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Re: Ministry of Justice orders deletion of the UK's largest court reporting database

#91
And, to think ... I voted for this horseshit ... I don't remember seeing this in the bloody manifesto.

This is why having decent standards in politics and opposition matters so much.

We all got together to vote out the last wankers, only to find that the current lot are of the same quality but in different ways.

And to think... the 'heads up their arses while trying to suppress a Hitler salute' brigade (Reform) are waiting in the wings to prove my point.

Re: Ministry of Justice orders deletion of the UK's largest court reporting database

#92
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would you prevent newspapers from reporting on it, or stop users posting about it on public forums? Yes

It is the UK we're talking about after all...

Where the accused have rights too?

Re: Ministry of Justice orders deletion of the UK's largest court reporting database

#94

Something is either public record - in which case it should be on a government website for free, and the AI companies should be free to scrape to their hearts desire... Or it should be sealed for X years and then public record. Where X might be 1 in cases where you don't want to hurt an ongoing investigation, or 100 if it's someone's private affairs. Nothing that goes through the courts should be sealed forever. We s…

Open to research yes. Free to ingest and make someones crimes a permanent part of AI datasets resulting in forever-convictions? No thanks. AI firms have shown themselves to be playing fast and loose with copyrighted works, a teenager shouldn't have their permanent AI profile become "shoplifter" because they did a crime at 15 yo that would otherwise have been expunged after a few years.

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Re: Ministry of Justice orders deletion of the UK's largest court reporting database

#95

Something is either public record - in which case it should be on a government website for free, and the AI companies should be free to scrape to their hearts desire... Or it should be sealed for X years and then public record. Where X might be 1 in cases where you don't want to hurt an ongoing investigation, or 100 if it's someone's private affairs. Nothing that goes through the courts should be sealed forever. We s…

Open to research yes. Free to ingest and make someones crimes a permanent part of AI datasets resulting in forever-convictions? No thanks. AI firms have shown themselves to be playing fast and loose with copyrighted works, a teenager shouldn't have their permanent AI profile become "shoplifter" because they did a crime at 15 yo that would otherwise have been expunged after a few years.

> Free to ingest and make someones crimes a permanent part of AI datasets resulting in forever-convictions?

You're conflating two distinct issues - access to information, and making bad decisions based on that information. Blocking access to the information is the wrong way to deal with this problem.

> a teenager shouldn't have their permanent AI profile become "shoplifter" because they did a crime at 15 yo that would otherwise have been expunged after a few years.

This would be a perfect example of something which should be made open after a delay. If the information is expunged before the delay, there's nothing to make open.

Re: Ministry of Justice orders deletion of the UK's largest court reporting database

#96
post #34
post #14

Along with the attempt to prevent jury trials for all but the most serious criminal cases, this is beginning to look like an attempt to prevent reporting on an upcoming case. I can think of one happening in April, involving the prime minister. Given he was head of the CPS for 5 years, would know exactly which levers to pull. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20dyzp4r42o

Why do you think "they" are trying to suppress reporting on a Russian-recruited Ukranian national carrying out arson attacks against properties the PM is "linked to" but does not live in? What's the supposed angle?

And how exactly is eliminating a third party search tool for efficiently searching lots of obscure magistrates court proceedings going to stop journalists from paying attention to a spicy court case linked to foreign agents and the PM?

Re: Ministry of Justice orders deletion of the UK's largest court reporting database

#97
post #3

Seems quite absurd that they would shut down the only system that could tell journalists what was actually happening in the criminal courts under the pretext that they sent information to a third-party AI company (who doesn’t these days). Here’s a rebuttal by one of the founders i believe: https://endaleahy.substack.com/p/what-the-minister-said

This aligns with what all of the conspiracy theorists have been saying about the UK over the last year. Maybe there is something to it.

Re: Ministry of Justice orders deletion of the UK's largest court reporting database

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The names of minors should never be released in public (with a handful of exceptions). But why shouldn't a 19 year old shoplifter have that on their public record? Would you prevent newspapers from reporting on it, or stop users posting about it on public forums?

If you prohibit the punishment of minors, you create an incentive for criminals to exploit minors. Why are we protecting criminals, just because they are minors? Protect victims, not criminals. Unfortunately reputational damage is part of the punishment (I have a criminal record), but maybe it's moronic to create a class of people who can avoid meaningful punishment for crimes?

We protect minors because they are children, and they are allowed to make mistakes.

At a certain point, we say someone is an adult and fully responsible for their actions, because “that’s who they are”.

It’s not entirely nuanced—and in the US, at least, we charge children as adults all the time—but it’s understandable.

Re: Ministry of Justice orders deletion of the UK's largest court reporting database

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The names of minors should never be released in public (with a handful of exceptions). But why shouldn't a 19 year old shoplifter have that on their public record? Would you prevent newspapers from reporting on it, or stop users posting about it on public forums?

If you prohibit the punishment of minors, you create an incentive for criminals to exploit minors. Why are we protecting criminals, just because they are minors? Protect victims, not criminals. Unfortunately reputational damage is part of the punishment (I have a criminal record), but maybe it's moronic to create a class of people who can avoid meaningful punishment for crimes?

> Why are we protecting criminals, just because they are minors? Protect victims, not criminals.

Protect victims and criminals. Protect victims from the harm done to them by criminals, but also protect criminals from excessive, or, as one might say, cruel and unusual punishment. Just because someone has a criminal record doesn't mean that anything that is done to them is fair game. Society can, and should, decide on an appropriate extent of punishment, and not exceed that.

Re: Ministry of Justice orders deletion of the UK's largest court reporting database

#100
post #84
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an extremely thorny question. Not allowing some kind of blank slate makes rehabilitation extremely difficult, and it is almost certainly a very expensive net social negative to exclude someone from society permanently, all the way up to their death at (say) 70, for something they did at 18. There is already a legal requirement to ignore "spent" convictions in some circumstances. However, there's also jobs whi…

Other people have rights like freedom of association. If you’re hell-bent on violating that, consider the second-order effects. What is the net social negative when non-criminals freely avoid working in industries in which criminals tend to be qualified to work?

What do you mean by that?
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