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Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

arstechnica.com

91–100 of 202 posts

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#91
post #69
post #3

I thought Republicans were for small government and were anti-censorship.

It's not hard to find similar dunks for the other side, eg. "I thought Democrats were for bodily autonomy" (with regards to vaccine mandates/passports) or "I thought liberals were for free speech" (with regards to cancel culture).

Free speech absolutely does not mean free from consequences speech.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point I think the biggest tangible difference between China and the US is that one country has high speed trains and affordable health care and the other has neither.

This kind of reductionist pithy comparison needs to stay on Reddit. Sure stuff is messed up here, but there are very real differences in both the degree and breadth of government abuse of power when you compare with China.

Care to elaborate?

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#93
post #69
post #3

I thought Republicans were for small government and were anti-censorship.

It's not hard to find similar dunks for the other side, eg. "I thought Democrats were for bodily autonomy" (with regards to vaccine mandates/passports) or "I thought liberals were for free speech" (with regards to cancel culture).

>"I thought Democrats were for bodily autonomy" (with regards to vaccine mandates/passports)

The liberal position on bodily autonomy (and indeed most things) has never been absolute. If an action is likely to cause harm to others (and forgoing a vaccine in the midst of a deadly pandemic is indeed likely to cause harm to others), then reasonable action to curtail the harm is justified. As recently as the 2010s, both parties supported vaccine mandates. I remember conservatives making fun of the antivax movement as liberal lunacy as recently as 2019.

>"I thought liberals were for free speech" (with regards to cancel culture).

Cancel culture is itself a form of free expression and association.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#94
post #91
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not hard to find similar dunks for the other side, eg. "I thought Democrats were for bodily autonomy" (with regards to vaccine mandates/passports) or "I thought liberals were for free speech" (with regards to cancel culture).

Free speech absolutely does not mean free from consequences speech.

I don't think you realize it, but your retort could be easily applied to the story in the OP just as easily as it could be applied to cancel culture. The point isn't whether either side is "right" or not, but that both side's positions shouldn't be distilled down to 1 liner dunks like the original commenter was engaging in.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#95
post #5

All the tech ceos are on the trump train this time around, it was a specific strategy of the trump campaign. Using words like “caved” as though they were pressured and not already aligned with the government is a disservice.

I interpret ‘caved’ in this context to mean they’re not gaining much in return - they make a loss by doing this, just they make an even bigger loss if they were targets of a Trump tantrum.

Judging by the financial reports they don't make any loss doing this, quite the opposite. Let's not weep where no weeping is due.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#96
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If it's that easy, how long do we really expect Advanced Data Protection to be free from government backdooring? Taking down an app is hardly unprecedented. Forcing companies to add backdoors in secret is, so it's a stretch to think that ADP is compromised.

> Forcing companies to add backdoors in secret is We have precedent: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/apple-admits-to-... Apple has since confirmed in a statement provided to Ars that the US federal government “prohibited” the company “from sharing any information,”

"secretly sharing notification data" (ie. asking for records kept in the usual course of business[1]) is not the same as "forcing companies to add backdoors in secret"

[1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/1732

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#97

> Unless there’s proof of incitement to violence or a true threat, such expression is protected. AFAIK the bar is even higher - incitement to violence is allowed, as long as it's not 'imminent': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imminent_lawless_action

> Advocacy of force or criminal activity does not receive First Amendment protections if (1) the advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action, and (2) is likely to incite or produce such action.

You'd need to say something which directs others to violate the law or commit acts of violence, at a specific time ("imminent"), and your statement must be likely to be effective at causing them to do so.

Protesting, encouraging others to protest, expressing your political beliefs, organizing a protest, etc. are not incitement to violence. Nor is "doxxing" (filming, identifying) a public employee. None of these activities satisfy those criteria.

Remember the "Twitter files" nonsense? I recall they were upset at the government influencing the expression of political views on social media. Not hearing much backlash about this from the same people, because this is what they were claiming, but 100x worse.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No the murders happen in camps eg. What's happening to the Uyghurs. That said, they also use them as slave labors. Maybe that's what ICE is going to do with the plan to setup large detention centers in the US

Look up the "zero idleness" program at CECOT where the Trump administration is sending deportees.

They've been successfully blocked (for now). No current deportees are headed there so far as I know. But they are busy trying to build the system right here at home.

ICE detention is already beginning to resemble the Salvadoran prison system.

Due process rights get violated. Detainees get shuttled around to different facilities to be lost in the system through engineered incompetence, making it difficult for legal counsel or family to find them, or even to know who has been taken. They subject them to torturous conditions, abuse, and often hold people who've committed no crimes for months.

They are thwarting oversight and defying court orders left and right. And they are trying to scale up like 10x+. And once they do, the detention system won't just be for immigrants. They are going to target anyone they want.

D's have successfully blocked DHS funding for now, but if they (or SCOTUS) allow any of this to go forward, things are likely to get far worse

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#99
post #7

What a surprise, IIRC in Hong Kong there was a platform that was fully decentralized. HK protesters used it on their phones during their uprising and China could not block it. Maybe it is time people move to that. Sadly I forgot its name or where to get it. Of course the app stores could block that too. There is always USENET I guess. I wonder if there are apps on Cell Phones that can access USENET and format the pos…

> Of course the app stores could block that

That is the problem with technical solutions. Governments can ban them, or mandate on device scanning to monitor your usage.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#100
Of course they do. We gave the DHS (and any other government agency) far too much power and they flex it.

We have so many agencies that can regulate businesses to death without any congressional intervention that it would be beyond idiotic to stand against them.

Not to mention that it's been proven again and again that the American populations attention span is far too short to do anything meaningful about the aforementioned powers / abuses.

Maybe it's age, or the attention I've paid to the erosion of liberties post 9/11. but is this headline a surprise to anyone?

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