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11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

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Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#91

Post by omnimus »

pessimizer wrote: post #20

This is a person who can vote in Slovakian elections, and through those elections vote for their EU representatives, but is too lazy to. You may have missed this, because it is buried under a ton of verbiage that makes this tiny number of nonvoters like a social problem. So when this person says: > [D]espite strong attachment to the European Union, mobile Europeans are less likely to participate in European elections…

Yeah always a victim. When you can't vote because you forget the deadline… you won't be able to vote anywhere.

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#92

Post by trueismywork »

RandomLensman wrote: post #31
trueismywork wrote: post #2

These (and not just limited to elections here now) are exactly the same issues that come up when non-EU migrants want to do stuff in EU. And the argument the OP makes has always been my argument. Fine, you hate migrants, good for you. But what about other Europeans who are getting the short stick with your national rules? No one has a good answer for this. FWIW: I am a non-EU migrant.

Could the host nation then draft EU immigrants in return for voting rights, for example?

Yes. Thats the decision that we need. Right? Do we want to actually make this pseudo political union into a proper political union? Because it is seeming more and more than instead what we will get is break up of the union.

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#93

Post by b112 »

omnimus wrote: post #89
b112 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you should look into common-law marriage. At least in Canada, living together for 2 years, means you are much closer to being married than not. It's even applicable for taxes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage Yes, you're not married. But you're not single either.

The article you are linking to specifically says that Canada doesn't have common law marriage only that “informal cohabitation relationships are recognised for certain purposes in Canada, creating legal rights and obligations”

Yes, it's marriage light in Canada. But other jurisdictions do have it.

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#94

Post by usrnm »

Radle wrote: post #59

I am tiny bit angry reading this. Does the author believe he can just come into my country and by the mere fact of breathing has a right to vote in my countries election? This is madness if you aren't a citizen you don't get to vote..

Well, you got your citizenship by the mere fact of coming into the world in the country and breathing in it, didn't you?

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#95

Post by PunchyHamster »

deanc wrote: post #54
dotancohen wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the same reason that married couples enjoy privileges that dating couples do not. The long term commitment and investment in a partner indicate and confer interest in long term stability and development.

So a permanent resident who has lived in a country, for say, 10 years? You don't think they're committed at that point and should have a right to vote on the society they are contributing to?

Yup, they should definitely apply for citizenship

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#96

Post by PunchyHamster »

EA-3167 wrote: post #26
JuniperMesos wrote: post #8

One of the best arguments against immigration is that, if you allow people to move to your country, even as non-citizen guest workers, they will eventually demand political rights in your country using their physical presence in a democracy as a moral justification. In other words, the only way to keep foreigners from influencing the laws and norms you live under is to physically bar them from your polity entirely.

That's only a good argument if you think they're bound to be a detriment in those "demands", or that basic dignity is too much to ask for hard labor in return for crap wages and no job security. Putting that aside even if you do accept the premise that people working and living in your country are a risk rather than an opportunity, it's a poor argument in favor of something that's necessitated by demographic change i…

It generally works just fine if immigrants come to country for a job, not to benefit from immigrant support programs from the govt.

Because then there is actual reason to integrate, you need to be nice to locals to get a job.

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#97

Post by PunchyHamster »

deanc wrote: post #11

This really resonates with me. I have lived in Finland for 16 years and struggled with work-life balance whilst trying to learn one of the most difficult languages in the world. Unless you pass the language exam you can't apply for citizenship - no matter how long you've been here for. And yet, the right-wing-ish coalition government is making hostile anti-immigration policies and increasing citizenship requirements…

Good. If you don't care about country enough to even learn its primary language, you should not be voting for anything.

You demand representation of government you can't even talk to or understand properly. That's insanity

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#98

Post by PunchyHamster »

croisillon wrote: post #37

as a young european, how often were we told about the four crossborder freedoms granted by the EU: people, goods, services and money it turns out, the ones who acted upon that are getting punished

Yeah, that's just broadly not correct

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#99

Post by maccard »

b112 wrote: post #93
omnimus wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article you are linking to specifically says that Canada doesn't have common law marriage only that “informal cohabitation relationships are recognised for certain purposes in Canada, creating legal rights and obligations”

Yes, it's marriage light in Canada. But other jurisdictions do have it.

Residency is citizenship light if you want to take that angle

Re: 11.8M EU citizens pay taxes to governments they cannot vote for

#100

Post by duxup »

chebureki wrote: post #32

I don't understand the argument the author makes. The author admits missing deadlines to vote in the general elections at home. The author admits missing deadlines to register for EU elections due to a recent move. I am an EU citizen, living in another EU country. I managed to vote in the most recent general elections at home. When it comes to the EU elections, I even have a choice: I could vote for MEPs in my countr…

That seems like a very flexible system.
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