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AWS Adds support for nested virtualization

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Re: AWS Adds support for nested virtualization

#91

Post by re-thc »

stoneforger wrote: post #78
re-thc wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but you now need to re-invent all of the AWS APIs you use or might use and it's big CAPEX time investment Or maybe you just never needed most of these in the first place. People got into this "AWS" mentality like it is the only way to do things. Everything had to be in a queue, event driven etc. I'd argue not using AWS means simplifying things and it'll be less expensive not just in server cost but developer time.

You don't get how this works. You buy in AWS because everyone else is , so it's expected. It diffuses risk to your stock options. This also begets a whole generation of people who can only use cloud services so now you are more hard pressed to find people with experience to run things without the cloud. You also create a bigger expenses sheet so it shows you're investing and growing, attracting more investors. "We pa…

[flagged]

Re: AWS Adds support for nested virtualization

#95

Post by rirze »

pezgrande wrote: post #87
PunchyHamster wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is expensive. But the point where it stops being expensive is far above most companies use case. If you're paying less than a developers salary for hosting you most likely won't see all that many benefits from moving. Renting a server from cheaper hosting providers can be massive savings but you now need to re-invent all of the AWS APIs you use or might use and it's big CAPEX time investment. And any new feature y…

System admins are probably cheaper that Cloud experts devops.

Good system admins? No.

Re: AWS Adds support for nested virtualization

#96

Post by otterley »

HumanOstrich wrote: post #58
BobbyTables2 wrote: post #40

Is nested VMX virtualization in the Linux kernel really that stable? The technical details are a lot more complex than most realize. Single level VMX virtualization is relatively straightforward even if there are a lot of details to juggle with VMCS setup and handing exits. Nested virtualization is a whole another animal as one now also has to handle not just the levels but many things the hardware normally does, plu…

It's been around for almost 15 years and stable enough for several providers to roll it out in production the past 10 years (GCP and Azure in 2017). AWS is just late to the game because they've rolled so much of their own stack instead of adapting open source solutions and contributing back to them.

> AWS is just late to the game because they've rolled so much of their own stack instead of adapting open source solutions and contributing back to them.

This is emphatically not true. Contributing to KVM and the kernel (which AWS does anyway) would not have accelerated the availability.

EC2 is not just a data center with commodity equipment. They have customer demands for security and performance that far exceed what one can build with a pile of OSS, to the extent that they build their own compute and networking hardware. They even have CPU and other hardware SKUs not available to the general public.

Re: AWS Adds support for nested virtualization

#97

Post by otterley »

anentropic wrote: post #75

Is this only when using the Go SDK?

Nah, it’ll show up in the others in their upcoming releases. Much of the code for the SDKs is autogenerated from JSON “API shape” files: https://github.com/aws/api-models-aws

Specifically, in this case: https://github.com/aws/api-models-aws/commit/8bca88a33592ca4...

Re: AWS Adds support for nested virtualization

#98

Post by otterley »

andrewstuart wrote: post #55

Only took them 9 years. AWS so much innovation. Remember, “customer obsession”. But “protect revenue first”.

There’s no revenue protection here. You pay the same for an instance whether you’ve subdivided it into your own VMs or not.

Re: AWS Adds support for nested virtualization

#99

Post by whopdrizzard »

firesteelrain wrote: post #89
whopdrizzard wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Azure has recently announced "direct virtualization", which is a sort of logical nesting, in which users can sub-partition their L1 VMs into virtual L2 VMs that are technically siblings. https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/blog/azurecompute/scalin... (I work there)

Cool, so that’s the new and preferred model for nested or sibling virt?

eventually yes, this is supposed to remove the perf tax of nested virtualization (less world/context switches on vm_exits) and unlocks some new use cases (pass through hardware from your VM to the sibling-guest).

Re: AWS Adds support for nested virtualization

#100

Post by lelandbatey »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #88
alexellisuk wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They used to charge a fair admin fee like 30-70 EUR for most bare-metal hosts.. now it's 99 EUR for the most basic/cheapest option.. up to 350 EUR for something modest like a 16 Core Ryzen.. monthly fees haven't changed much. https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-ex/ https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-ax/

I've never used Hetzner because their terms of service didn't make any sense to me, but a 350 EUR fee for each setup? That almost seems like they don't want business. Every bare metal host I've used had a management interface I could submit a job to in order to reprovision my host at any time. Some even offer a recovery console through this. It takes 1-10 minutes but I'm assuming it was out of band management based,…

Hetzner offers uniquely cheap dedicated hosting, even beating OVH. Per their statement about the fees, they're having to do this because without the setup fees, recent hardware prices increases would otherwise raise the price of acquiring new hardware so high that they would essentially never make a profit on the hardware they would have to buy for new orders. They're also saying that their overall prices are going to have to increase if the hardware prices don't change soon. Thus they are charging more for setup while keeping their monthly prices low, or at least trying to for now: https://www.hetzner.com/pressroom/statement-setup-fees-adjus...
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